Is Our Earth FLAT and Motionless, Not a Spinning Globe?

[gsjackson]

Both Einstein and Stephen Hawking have said that the geocentric model accounts for observable phenomena as well as the heliocentric model does. Hawking said he preferred heliocentric because it was easier to make the math work out with it (not to mention easier -- make that possible -- to have a career in theoretical physics). Einstein was a main-chance guy who spied an opportunity to once again prop up the beleaguered heliocentric model when 19th century experiments (e.g., Michaelson-Morley) had failed to demonstrate the earth's rotation. So he came up with some hocus pocus about relativity that only "geniuses" like him could understand, and the entire "scientific" establishment came to worship at his feet in gratitude for having saved their careers.

In any case, neither of these "geniuses" was liable to be calling people who investigate the geocentric model idiots. That's just socially-programmed lemmings, which unfortunately is an extremely large category.

[Winston]

https://youtu.be/0TT4DE-aNoI

I found a link to the documentary you mentioned Winston, is this the right one?

Yes that's the one. Please watch it. I know it's really long and almost 6 hours, but it presents many good points and shows you a lot of practical experiments to support the flat earth over a dome (snowglobe?) theory. Including miniature models and lab models, such as the Faraday experiment which shows how a Sun and Moon could rotate over a flat plane. The narrator is also very mesmerizing in his presentation and takes you down many rabbit holes. He is good at blowing your mind away. lol

Btw, how could you not have heard of Eric Dubay? He is the top flat earther. If you researched FE you must have come across him. Globebusters channel mentions him many times and have had him on their podcast.

Here is the link to Eric Dubay's 200 flat earth proofs videobook and webpage:

200 Proofs Earth is Not a Spinning Ball - by Eric Dubay

Video version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0EGB_o9TZM

PDF version to download:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/h5fyp0o3 ... 1.pdf?dl=0

Online webpage version:
http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015 ... -ball.html

[Winston]

Here is a new Eric Dubay video about whether the Earth's alleged curvature can be seen from a plane window.

When confronted with the question of the shape of the world, many people are quick to assert that they live on a globe because they believe they have personally seen the curvature of the Earth from their airplane window. Some people even believe when they visit the beach or climb atop a mountain that they are able to see the horizon curve downwards far in the distance. The reality is, however, that anyone thinking they can see curvature on the horizon from any altitude is suffering from a serious case of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance.

To begin with, the glass used in all commercial airplane passenger windows is actually round, layered and slightly curved which distorts the edges giving the impression that the horizon and other straight lines curve downwards. These rounded windows have the effect of evenly distributing pressure and reducing the likelihood of cracks or breaks because they have no corners for stress to concentrate making them better at withstanding pressure. Unfortunately though, these windows also have the strange side-effect of causing people to believe that the Earth is a globe because they mistake the curvature of the glass for that of the horizon...

[Winston]

@Pixel--Dude

Here are some short videos by Eric Dubay about how the eclipse works over a flat earth, since you mentioned the eclipse as a globe earth proof earlier.



A key point I posted to Eric Dubay under his ISS hoax video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmj_SdBURX0&t=342s

"Eric, one key point you should make is that if the Earth is a globe, then up or down cannot exist objectively because those in Australia would be standing upside down while feeling right side up. If that were true, then the crew on the ISS could easily walk UPSIDE DOWN on the ceiling or walls of the ISS with no problem, as if they were standing upright. But they never do. Everyone on the ISS is faced right side up with their head pointed upwards. That speaks volumes and is a key point the globe earthers can never explain. Moreover, in the solar system model, all the planets are pointed with their north poles upward, never sideways or upside down, which would be the case if up or down does not exist, per what astronomy claims. What's more, the Earth is always shown right side up too, but if up and down don't exist then why is the globe of the Earth never shown sideways or upside down? If there were no true up or down then it wouldn't matter right? Why not flip the Earth sideways and call the north and soul poles, as the east and west poles? lol. Do you see my point? You should make a video addressing this Eric. Hope you will credit it to me. "

[Winston]

@Winston
@Cornfed
@gsjackson

Morning guys. I've watched the 6 hour documentary on flat earth and I have to say it is the best flat earth documentary I have ever watched. I think the guy presenting the documentary presents a lot of good evidence and interesting arguments. I'm still not 100% convinced that the earth is flat, but I have confessed to friends and family that after watching the documentary I am forced to acknowledge that flat earth COULD be possible. I'll give my feedback on a few of his points below.

NASA: The evidence he gives on NASA being frauds is pretty good. The videos with the bubbles leaving their suits on space walks, the augmented reality contact lenses and controls on their arms. And especially the moonlanding xD pmsl! What a joke that video was! Yeah. I can 100% get behind NASA and the government faking missions into space in order to scam the tax payer and steal all their money.

The Religious Angle: I've often asked flat earthers why such a hoax would be necessary and the answer mostly comes back to religion and hiding God, mostly in the Christian context. I can now see how a flat earth is more mystical than the globe model, and how a globe model could be used to convince people that they are floating aimlessly around in space. Accidents of the cosmos. I fail to see why though they would allow bibles and other religious texts to continue to circulate if the idea was to hide the Christian God. My take on this is that a flat earth could be hidden to obscure creationism, but the bible and its doctrines are another element of control of the masses. Still though, a globe earth does not necessarily mean a god is less likely to exist.

Gravity: I thought his points on gravity were pretty weak. It seems the denial of gravity, as presented on the globe model and even perspective are misunderstood and the denial of gravity is predicated on this misunderstanding. On a globe model it is up and down that are the abstract and not gravity. For example the guy in Australia isn't standing upside down, from his perspective people on the other side of the world are upside down. That's perspective. As for the planes and building bridges, the curvature is not taken into account because it is so gradual that wherever you are at any given time means you're surrounded by a flat plane. You're building the bridge in a straight line, but that bridge goes over the curve and you do not perceive it. Its weird. Same with the plane. If they fly at an altitude of 3000 ft they will maintain that altitude even as they fly over the curvature, they wouldn't just fly off into space if they didn't keep dipping the nose lol. Also why can gravity not exist on a flat earth model? If it doesn't then what makes things fall?

Sun & Moon: I liked this section of the documentary. I have only ever heard stupid explanations for how a rotating Sun and Moon can work on the geocentric model. I think his explanation of convergent and divergent lines and the vanishing point was well done. Then later the Faraday Effect (am I getting this bit right?) With the electro magnetic field of the planet causing the sun and the moon to rotate and float without gravity being necessary. I still don't comprehend how the seasons work on the flat earth model. Does the sun move faster when it's in the southern tropic? Because it has more distance to cover? The part with the lunar eclipse was interesting. How can the sun and moon be present in the sky at the same time during a lunar eclipse? And in a solar eclipse shouldn't the sun devour our moon?

The Dome: I liked his videos of the dome and constellations, with the Chinese zodiac being a map of the firmament with the sun and moon being the ying and yang. The rocket videos banging into the dome were pretty cool too. I wondered though, could the impenetrable dome also be possible on a globe earth? But in the sense of an energetic forcefield surrounding the planet to keep us confined here. Possibly by hostile E.T's?

Other Stuff: The North Pole segment was really interesting and it kind of blew my mind. The Tree of Life is in the centre and also a bridge to other dimensions? That would be so cool, is there anything other than ancient drawings and stuff which could substantiate his claim? What's interesting is that a friend of mine saw this tree when she had a psychedelic experience years ago. I don't know if this claim could be true, and I'm skeptical.

But yeah, cracking documentary that. I really enjoyed it. Some of it made me ask certain questions, I thought some of it was a bit iffy in its explanation of certain concepts. I'm still not 100% convinced the earth is flat. I think most of the contradictory evidence given by nasa and physicists comes from this need they have to know absolutely everything, when physicists will tell you themselves that we don't really know anything about physics. With every new discovery we realise we are now slightly less wrong than we were before.

Wow. Thanks for taking the time to watch all that. You must have a lot of patience. lol. Or your mind is easily blown too, like mine. lol. You should suggest your friend Lucas88 to watch it too. Did you actually tell your family and friends that you think flat earth could be possible? I wouldn't bring it up to your family and relatives, they may think you are crazy if you do. That's not a polite topic. Unless they are super open minded.

Well yeah you don't have to be completely sure either way. The point is that BOTH models, flat earth and globe earth, have problems. It's not like one is airtight and the other is faulty. Come on. No way. No way is globe earth airtight. Keep in mind that you've never actually SEEN the curvature of the Earth with your naked eye. You've only seen it in photos and on TV. Not in person. That's the key point. Therefore, you take it on faith that Earth is a globe.

Yes NASA and the ISS are very problematic. Too many holes in it. NASA is also a proven liar and murderer too. They murdered Thomas Ronald Baron to prevent him from testifying to the Senate about the failure of the Apollo program. And they murdered the 3 astronauts in the Apollo One fire. The families of the 3 astronauts all believe NASA is lying and covering up something and isn't telling them the truth. So if NASA are liars and murderers, why would you trust them to tell you the truth? They are a military organization, not a civilian one.

As to hiding the Christian God, that's a bit of a misnomer. What they want to hide is divinity and purpose and intelligent design. Not exactly Christianity. They want you to think you are a random accident and therefore should live a materialistic life. They've been wanting that since the 1800s when they came up with the idea of evolution.

The reason the elite supports both Christianity and Atheism in the science/academic establishment, is because both are control systems and they attack you the public, from two sides, like in a classic military style pincer movement. Just like they are doing now with Covid and the Vaccines. Both Covid and the Vaccine are a two front attack from both sides, a classic military pincer movement. Same with Socialism - pressure from above (upper classes) and pressure from below (downtrodden masses) against the middle class, which is the target of socialism. A two prong attack.

The thing is, if you can't accept atheism and you need religion, they want you to be Christian, so you will feel like a guilty sinner living in fear of punishment from God. As long as you live in fear, the system controls you and feeds off you and makes you weak. So it fits their fear agenda. They definitely do not want you to be fearless or carefree. So both Christianity and Atheism exist to both you in from both sides. If you don't like one, you are supposed to go to the other. Most people will fall for that trap of the false dichotomy of:

1. If Atheism is false, then Christianity is true.
2. If Christianity is false, then Atheism is true.

It takes a freethinker to see beyond that little false dichotomy that the system wants you to be trapped between. So Christianity is basically a net to trap you if you can't adopt Atheism. Kind of like how the Democrats and Republicans are two nets to keep you trapped between a controlled space while both sides are controlled by the same system. While giving you the illusion of choice of course. It's an old outdated game and control mechanism that has worked for centuries.

As to gravity, you can make excuses for it. But the point is, how do you know it exists? You assume it does because otherwise we would all fly off the spinning ball into space. But if Earth is not a spinning ball, then gravity has no purpose or function right? How do you know that we need gravity otherwise we will fly off into space? You assume that but they cannot prove that and there is no actual proof of that, other than you seeing astronauts floating in space. Again you take it all on faith. You can't test any of it.

The gravity thing is problematic too. How come the Moon's gravity affects the ocean's tides but doesn't affect lakes or swimming pools or the water in your cup? None of this is consistent.

Eric Dubay has a video about how the Seasons work on a flat earth.

There does appear to be a dome or force field above the earth. Science has announced it before in articles. Yes a globe earth can have a dome too. The earth may be a ball inside concentric spheres, like a Russian egg doll. Some ancient models show a sphere within a sphere. So outside of our sphere may be a larger sphere and the sky is the rooftop of the second sphere above us? If so then the spheres below us would be the hellish realms? Art Bell interviewed some Native American man called Thunder Strikes who said that the Native Americans sort of saw the Earth as a sphere within a sphere, and we are on one of the spheres.

I don't know if there is a giant tree at the North Pole. You would think someone would see it. Maybe it's hidden or camouflaged or cloaked by a cloaking device or is in another dimension? The elite have made sure that we are segregated from the spiritual dimension after all, so all that stuff about the Axus Mundi and Atlantis, etc may be in dimenions that are removed from ours? Or it may be part of the original Earth and we are in a simulated copy of the original Earth, here to be slaves to the system? Many possibilities.

[Winston]

3. Why are NASA images of planets and stars so different to those taken by normal people with powerful telescopes? It's obvious all their images are lies. It's also obvious that their calculations are a load of bollocks. I mean, how can they know the sun is 93 million miles away? Pmsl. How did they measure that? I think most of their calculations are just made up to make them seem smarter than they actually are. In reality they know Jack shit about how the world works.

So, in the points mentioned we see clear tangible scientific proof that a flat earth model COULD be possible. I don't think people who believe in flat earth are idiots at all. A true skeptic always questions everything.

Well according to astronomy, they measure the distance of the Sun, Moon and stars by parallax, using trigonometry to calculate the distance of an object by triangulating it with two base points. But their equations assume the Earth is curved and so they base their equations on a curved surface. But if the Earth is not even curved, then all their equations are wrong.

Keep in mind that modern astronomy and cosmology are all based on mathematical calculations and equations, not actual proofs and experiments that are demonstratable in a lab. Math is a language and language can be used to lie. Even Tesla said that modern science was bogus in this regard, and that they produce nothing of value except for equations on a chalkboard.

The thing is, if you go look up at the Sun, Moon and stars in the sky, you can intuitively feel that they are close, not far away as astronomy claims. You can feel it in your gut instinct. Go outside and try it for a while and see.

For sure, the Moon cannot be reflecting sunlight. A full moon is very bright, like a light bulb turned on. Go out and look at a full Moon and you will see this. A dead object cannot become that bright from reflection alone. And any object reflecting light will have a hot spot on it. Shine a flashlight on an object and you will see what I mean. The light will be concentrated on one point and will not be equally lit all over its surface.

What this means is that the entire field of astronomy could all be a hoax.

[NPCslammer]

I’ve noticed that for globe earth believers it’s generally one thing, predominately, that convinces them the earth is a ball. For me it was Nasa and the thousands of images they have of planets and the earth and the rings around Saturn etc.. Then when you actually find out they are a bunch of CGI images, which is even admitted subtlety, you wonder why can’t they just have a legitimate photo. The photos of the earth?-A bunch of CGI. The moon landing?- fake. Rammstein has a moon landing sequences in a music video that look more realistic. So what are they doing with these billions of dollars? Almost seems like their mission is to hide the true nature of the earth and “space.” Then you start looking into everything else and you realize the solar system and spinning ball earth has almost nothing to back it up. It’s mostly the fake images from Nasa, and the rockets, the moon landing and the international space station that makes people thinking it’s a giant spinning ball flying through space at ridiculous speeds. Really, the only things that the flat earthers haven’t figured out yet are an exact map, the exact trajectory of the sun and moon operate, and satellites, but the globe earthers can’t explain literally hundreds of things.

[Lucas88]

Wow. Thanks for taking the time to watch all that. You must have a lot of patience. lol. Or your mind is easily blown too, like mine. lol. You should suggest your friend Lucas88 to watch it too. Did you actually tell your family and friends that you think flat earth could be possible? I wouldn't bring it up to your family and relatives, they may think you are crazy if you do. That's not a polite topic. Unless they are super open minded.

Hi Winston,

Pixel--Dude, myself, my brother and his girlfriend are watching the documentary together in manageable installments. We are about halfway through collectively but I also rewatched it by myself and got to the end.

I had never been particularly interested in Flat Earth and simply assumed that its recent resurgence was a psyop with the sinister aim of discrediting the conspiracy movement through association with an archaic theory which most people today consider retarded (indeed Miles Mathis whose conspiracy articles I occasionally read takes this stance) but, after watching this documentary which you recommended, I can see that some of the arguments which Flat Earthers make no longer seem as dumb as many people think. In light of this I decided to give them more consideration.

Even though I am not a Flat Earther and have never cared much for the model I have never been one to ridicule those who do believe in it. I remember when I was looking through the comment section of a Flat Earth video on YouTube (that was when Flat Earth content still wasn't almost universally censored) and saw that almost all of the naysayers were resorting to ridicule and mockery and some of them were even erupting into fits of rage as they railed on about "scientific illiteracy" and "science denial". I never understood why it riled them up so much. Why does it matter to them that a small group of eccentric misfits believe that the Earth is flat? I never had any inclination to laugh at Flat Earthers nor did I ever believe that they were retarded for their beliefs. I've always valued free investigation and open-mindedness and disliked the haughty scoffers who resort to mockery. After all, those same unpleasant people mock us too for believing in things like near-death experiences, reincarnation, qi phenomena, and UFOs.

I've started to do my own research into the history of beliefs regarding the shape of the Earth. From what I've read so far, even in a single civilization there were often contradictory models. For example, in Ancient India there coexisted both flat and spherical models of the Earth. The Shatapatha Brahmana from the later Vedic period assumed the Earth to be shaped like a wheel. Indeed one early Hindu cosmological account conceives the world as a series of flat disks stacked on top of each other at varying metaphysical densities. However, the popular Bhagavata Purana describes the Earth's shape at times as flat and at other times as spherical. Likewise, we are told that the Egyptians and Babylonians had maps which depicted the Earth as flat yet the Flat Earther church father Methodius criticized the Globe Earth beliefs of the Egyptians and Chaldeans. Pythagoras also believed that the Earth was a sphere as early as the 6th century BCE. Was there already indigenous conceptions of a Globe Earth in ancient civilizations or was that due to Greek influence via Aristotle?

As I've already mentioned, I'm still not a Flat Earther and would need more evidence in order to adopt the belief but I'm open to the idea should more convincing evidence arise. I myself don't have a background in physics or astronomy so I'll have to do research into many of the scientific concepts presented in the documentary and other Flat Earth material. I understand that both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers present experimental evidence which purports to affirm their own respective viewpoint and discredit the other but I'll have to research for myself whether their purported experiments and data are valid and really prove what they claim to do. I just don't have sufficient knowledge to address the topic at this point. Right now my interest in the FE theory is merely one of curiosity.

I myself don't really care whether the Earth is flat or spherical. I don't think that it would change my worldview too much at all. I already believe that the world is the intelligent creation of a transcendental being of pure consciousness known to the Hindus as Brahman. I already believe in the existence of the spiritual world and the soul and the soul's evolution regardless of whether our planet is a spinning ball in some part of a vast cosmos or whether it is a flat motionless plane isolated within a dome-shaped firmament. As for my belief in extraterrestrials (both positive and negative), I would simply suppose that they have an interdimensional origin just as some ufologists such as Vallée and Hynek already do and that they have always interacted with the physical flat earth through some kind of shifting between the physical and planes of greater subtlety. After all, we are supposed to believe that civilizations such as the Egyptians and Sumerians had FE maps yet at the same time both testified that the Anunnaki/Neteru interacted with them on a physical level. Indeed the Egyptians tell us that the likes of Ptah and Horus ruled over the predynastic kingdoms before being separated from the human world at the other side of the abyss. So no, my belief in extraterrestrials wouldn't change. I don't believe in Sitchin's fraudulent Nibiru hypothesis anyway.

One thing that I do wonder is whether the Flat Earth maps with the dome-shaped firmament found in ancient civilizations like Sumer and Babylonia among others were really literal depictions of how those people conceived the Earth's shape or whether they were simply stylized artistic renditions of our world. We know that the ancients had impressive technology as evidenced by their advanced megalithic structures and other material achievements. If they are literal depictions then that would give more credence to the FE model since the ancients could have known things that we don't know. But if they are merely symbolic then they wouldn't have importance with regard to the topic at hand.

I know that some people draw attention to the concept of Yggdrasil in Norse mythology and interpret it as a literal cosmic tree at the center of the alleged Flat Earth and located at the North Pole but I've heard from some Norse Pagans that Yggdrasil is an allegorical representation of the human soul and its qualities and has nothing to do with the shape of the literal Earth.

[Winston]

Pixel Dude and Lucas88

I agree that the shape of the Earth isn't going to change my view of reality much, as either way, we are not here by accident or chance, but by some kind of intelligent design. However, for atheists it is a big deal, because atheism has no ground to stand on if we are in a flat earth inside a dome, like a snowglobe or petri dish. If that's true, atheism is over. So atheists have a personal interest in debunking flat earth.

The reason why some people ridicule flat earth with extreme derision, is because deep down they know they are living a lie. So they do not want that exposed. You see, if I said 2+2=5, no one would care. Everyone would just ignore me and not bother to even acknowledge that. No one would feel the need to debunk it. But when it comes to the shape of the earth, it affects their world view, and threatens to shatter their atheistic house of cards, so they take it personally. That's why the flat earth thing hits close to home with the atheists and the scientism crowd.

[Winston]

Eric Dubay's new video addressing the southern hemisphere flights from Sydney to Santiago. What do you guys think?

[TruthSeeker]

Interesting listen. Jim's guest comes on 40:37

[Cornfed]

Just pondering a major pain in the butt for me, which is that seemingly all flights between Latin America and Australia & New Zealand have to go through LAX. On a globe this is wasteful and silly. On a flat earth it is a straight line which makes perfect sense.

[Huddo]

There’s not enough demand for direct flights to Central America. Last time I went to Europe using Qatar airlines, which is a lot more popular than Central America, there were only 30 people on a plane that probably holds 300+

[Cornfed]

That scientist who posted a picture he said was taken by the Webb telescope but was actually a piece of sausage probably gets it.

https://www.timesnownews.com/viral/jame ... 20Chorizo.

[Cornfed]

I suppose we know that orbiting satellites are a hoax. Here it is explained in song.