What toxic masculinity really is

[Cornfed]

But if you do get married, you should really try to please your woman in bed. They are easier to get along with if you do.

Trying to please a woman by acting like a woman is like that South Park episode satirizing the show Queer Eye For the Straight Guy, where the men all follow the latest fashion and become effeminate and gay, obsess over their appearance and such . The women like it at first and then become revolted by it.

[MrMan]

You know what? I was out of line, man. I should not have insinuated things like that about you and that was a nasty and totally uncalled for thing of me to do. My apologies, @MrMan. Just because I have a skeptical nature does not make it alright for me to cast such nasty aspersions.

I accept your apology.

Honestly, part of what bothered me about all that is people basically calling me a liar. I am pretty sure I have never even been dishonest in the least on this forum for all the years I've been on here. As a Christian, I try not to lie, even just trying to get my facts straight. I don't want to misrepresent people, but I am sure I have unintentionally made mistakes. I think I got some fact mixed up about contrarian when he was on about her, thinking he went to prostitutes when he was just talking about his opinion on prostitution early on. Of course, later, he was talking about having sugar babies, which he probably got into later in his time on this forum. He probably didn't come right out and say he slept with them, though. He posted about using testosterone to be able to have sex whenever he wanted, but wasn't that explicit. I didn't intentionally lie about him, if I got a fact mixed up a time or two.

I also don't think it is unChristian to talk about married sex. This forum is full of men, and a lot of them want to fornicate. Sex typically appeals to young men. It sure did to me. And that doesn't go away for most of us when we start to get a bit older. The Bible says, "Marriage is holy in all, and the bed undefiled." The Bible actually has a lot to say about sex in marriage, and against sex outside of marriage. Pointing out that the sexual need can be satisfied in marriage, and even better than what a lot of men on the forum are pursuing is a positive thing. That was my reasoning behind the sex a thousand times post, or whatever the numbers were I estimated at the time.

[Outcast9428]

@MrMan

I wouldn't want a man who didn't care about women in his life around my kids, either. A man wanting to be a good lover (someday) is a positive thing, though I wouldn't want some guy wanting to date my daughters to talk to me about that kind of junk.

This is what I tried to explain to Cornfed when he tried to claim that people in Medieval Europe would have been okay with him wanting to choke girls in bed and cheat on his wife with prostitutes. What parent in an ultra conservative society would want their daughter to marry a guy who’s gone around his village saying to people that it’s alright to choke girls during sex or cheat on your wife with prostitutes?

[Outcast9428]

Its impossible to say for the Philippines because they have not done any surveys there, but among American Asian girls, it appears to be around 33% who have some kind of masochistic fantasies. The sad truth is, amongst the other women, it is around 65%-70%. With my own personal experiences, I think both of those stats are true. In high school and college, I was seriously disturbed by how many women were into this stuff. Not only how many of them are into it, but how many of them are really aggressive about it. They will demand you hit them, or spank them and then call you a p***y if you refuse to do it. I know two girls who's lives have been completely ruined by sadomasochism dependency (basically, can't enjoy sex at all without pain).

Surveys done 30-40 years ago found that half the number of women back then had these kind of fantasies. It is obviously the porn industry's fault this is happening, 88% of porn videos apparently contain some form of violence in them. Around half of people engaging in this behavior self-admit that they were influenced at least somewhat by pornography to do it. 25% said they were influenced "a lot" by porn.

I'd still rather a girl actually have sex with someone else then have masochistic fantasies... Because having masochistic fantasies is cheating on me. It is moral adultery. A female companion of mine must share my values and my mission, and by having masochistic fantasies, she is committing emotional/moral adultery. She has basically tricked me into defiling my soul and my genetic legacy by sleeping with and possibly having a child with a woman who harbors abominable fetishes. Are my kids going to stricken with this sickness because I had a child with her? The thought is unbearable.

Honestly that's crazy, man... I had no clue the statistics were THAT high. Wow.

And if 33% of Asian girls in America are admitting in a survey to be into that, that's STILL crazy high, by the way. This survey is among students, not regular population, I think I saw you say? I think some Asian men are incredibly freaky and oversexed, in terms of stuff they're into and sex drive. Not necessarily students, but some working class men. Like you give a Filipino dude a high salary in Saudi Arabia and you'll be shocked and appalled by the amount of alcohol he may consume, mistresses he may keep and whores he'll bang... and yes, I have seen and heard quite a lot of Filipino male promiscuity over the years, some wear their depravity as a badge of honors and openly and shamelessly brag about second or third families, secret of out wedlock kids they fathered or mistresses they have.

By contrast, I'll give you this, the women seem to behave a lot better. Those that do get wild, they hide it a lot more. They're not usually sexually aggressive unless they're dirt poor and they think you have the money to uplift them, somehow. These wouldn't be the women that you want, anyway, and I'd say the ones who are overt about it aren't the ones a sane man would want, anyway.

As for Asian fetishes, or fetishes in general... I would have guessed around, I don't know, ten to twenty percent of girls to be major into being dominagted? Like across the board? I never would have guessed ONE IN THREE Asian girls are into it big time and TWO OUT OF THREE when it comes to other races, that's honestly insane to me. We're talking like full-on degrading stuff here or what? No, seriously, that's crazy to men, man. I mean usually "sex is sex" for me, and things don't go to those levels. It's quite rare for me to find a girl who really, really wants to "go there". To hear your stories of girls literally calling dudes "pussies" for not slapping their faces, spitting on them and f***ing them into a raw bleeding puddle... that's sick, dude. I agree with you there. Definitely not a healthy or good thing at all.

That’s the percentages of girls who have any masochistic fantasies at all. Not necessarily that they are hardcore into it. For that, it appears to be more around 25%-35% of non-Asian girls and 12% of Asian girls who have serious degradation fetishes.

I hope you understand why I am so paranoid about any sign of masochism in a woman now. Also, these statistics have doubled from 30 years ago. Girls of other races in the 90s were more like modern Asian girls and Asian girls back then had virtually no masochistic fantasies of any kind much less serious ones. I believe the porn industry is responsible for making these fetishes a lot more common then they used to be. 56% of people doing this stuff claim to be at least somewhat influenced by porn while 25% claim to have been influenced a lot by porn.

The Asian men also reported being half as likely to have fantasies of hurting someone during sex. Sadistic fantasies are not as common among anyone as masochistic ones are. Asian men were also just as likely as Asian girls to say love was needed in order to have sex, both of whom agreed with this at 64% compared to 32% of White men and 50% of White women.

[Lucas88]

By the way @Lucas88 I’m gonna have to disagree that Latin America is the most sexually liberal region on Earth… Definitely not more so then the UK is. Although hookups are acceptable in Latin America, they do not dominate the culture the way it does in the UK. There’s still a decent number of people there living conservative lifestyles. Nor can I imagine people being actively persecuted for living conservatively. Abortion on demand is also illegal in most of Latin America. I also feel like the sadomasochism problem is a lot worse in the UK.

I’ve also noticed that British people are extremely committed to sexual liberalism. Almost like the French and the Germans. I almost never meet a British person who opposes it.

Britain strikes me as the kind of country where it’s all one night stand culture until you are like 30 years old and then people “might” want to settle down. Sexual liberalism in Britain is so dominant you can’t even have monogamous relationships because people will act like it’s pathetic. Countries like Britain, Sweden, Iceland. They remind me of my college except that entire nations have been turned into a college campus.

I doubt you would have recommended Peru to Tsar if you thought Peru was as sexually liberal as Britain is. Trying to find a virgin girl in Britain is a fool’s errand.

I think that we have different opinions on which region is more sexually liberal than the other because our respective focuses differ with regard to the analysis of sexual liberalism. You focus on the prevalence of hookup culture whereas I include in my own analysis attitudes towards sex. The UK might have a higher prevalence of hookup culture and therefore be a sexually liberal culture in that regard but at the same time there is also a highly feministic leaning which aggressively promotes unlimited sexual freedom for women while condemning male sexuality and labelling undesirable men as "creeps" and "perverts". Because of this hypocrisy I don't regard Anglo culture to be consistently sexually liberal at all. It is rather a culture of sexual feminism. I've never encountered this demonization of male sexuality in Latin America. Latin America by and large recognizes sexual freedom for both men and women and is therefore for me more consistently sexually liberal.

The UK is not entirely as you make it out to be. While it's true that pub culture and club culture are really big in the UK and this leads to a lot of one-night stands after sessions of heavy alcohol consumption and ungodly levels of drunkenness (UK pub/club culture is really trashy and unpleasant, by the way), the UK is more of a mixed bag with some people getting heavily involved in clubbing and hookup culture once they leave school and others living more normal lives and settling down in long-term relationships in their 20s. Clubbing and hookup culture are not as universal as you seem to think they are. I know quite a few people from my hometown who settled down pretty early and had long-term relationships or got married. I even know some people who married their high school sweetheart. People aren't persecuted for living a conservative/monogamous lifestyle. I've never seen anybody get ridiculed for being in a monogamous relationship. I think that it's mostly just the hedonistic clubber crowd who act as though commitment is stupid.

The reason why I recommended Peru to @Tsar is because I know how easy it is for a White/Caucasian guy to attract girls due to our high level of desirability in that country as well as more relaxed views concerning age gaps. I researched the average age for loss of virginity in Peru (I looked at some Spanish-language research since I couldn't find any concrete data for Peru in English) and found that Peruvians in the capital of Lima tend to lose their virginity between the ages of 16 and 19 (other parts of the country had different trends). That means that Tsar could still realistically get an 18 year-old virgin. For comparison the average age for loss of virginity in the UK is 18. But in most Western European countries a 30 something year-old guy dating an 18 year-old girl would be heavily frowned upon.

[MrMan]

@MarcosZeitola to you guys who can tell if a man is good-looking, does it apply to yourself? Can you tell if you yourself are good-looking or is the bias too great? There is also the fact that we usually see ourselves basically from one angle, and it's hard to see yourself from the side without multiple mirrors.

I read in a psychology book that most people choose a partner who is about as good-looking as they are. So I guess some people have some sense of it. I could tell, so I went for a woman I found beautiful and didn't care much what I looked like. One of my co-workers in Korea was a tall white guy. He was concerned he and his shorter girlfriend looked odd together because of the height difference. I remember thinking I cared nothing at all about such things-- just if the girl looked good.

[Outcast9428]

@MarcosZeitola to you guys who can tell if a man is good-looking, does it apply to yourself? Can you tell if you yourself are good-looking or is the bias too great? There is also the fact that we usually see ourselves basically from one angle, and it's hard to see yourself from the side without multiple mirrors.

I read in a psychology book that most people choose a partner who is about as good-looking as they are. So I guess some people have some sense of it. I could tell, so I went for a woman I found beautiful and didn't care much what I looked like. One of my co-workers in Korea was a tall white guy. He was concerned he and his shorter girlfriend looked odd together because of the height difference. I remember thinking I cared nothing at all about such things-- just if the girl looked good.

I know there’s nothing wrong with me other then being a bit skinny. That’s about it. I know I’m exactly six feet tall so I got that going for me. Given that 70% of men are either overweight or obese though wouldn’t that make me somewhere in the top 30% or so?

Pretty much everyone I’ve asked say they think I’m a 7. That sounds about right to me. I can only tell based on stuff like that though, I can’t instinctively determine masculine attractiveness.

[MrMan]

Pretty much everyone I’ve asked say they think I’m a 7. That sounds about right to me. I can only tell based on stuff like that though, I can’t instinctively determine masculine attractiveness.

So you can't see a man and tell if he is good-looking either? I would not have known Brad PItt was supposed to be good-looking if I hadn't heard or read it somewhere, and the fact that he was a lead in movies. Same with Tom Cruise.

[Cornfed]

The only way to determine if a man is good looking is if women are sexually attracted to him.

There is an obvious flaw in your thinking in that you are committing the fallacy of begging the question (look it up). You assume that females are sexually attracted based solely on looks and then define good looks as whatever men who females are attracted to look like, so you are making a circular argument.

[Cornfed]

No, it makes perfect sense from a biological perspective. If the opposite sex is attracted to you then you are good looking. Women are attracted to men with good physical genetics that they want to f**k and reproduce with.

No, there could be other reasons for attraction such as you have useful abilities, are in fashion, have high reproductive potential within the current environment (i.e. are a stupid asshole) etc. Looks are only one factor.

[Cornfed]

No, it makes perfect sense from a biological perspective. If the opposite sex is attracted to you then you are good looking. Women are attracted to men with good physical genetics that they want to f**k and reproduce with.

No, there could be other reasons for attraction such as you have useful abilities, are in fashion, have high reproductive potential within the current environment (i.e. are a stupid asshole) etc. Looks are only one factor.

You're going off topic here anyway. Looks are what determine if you're physically attractive or good looking which is what we're talking about. We're talking about whether men are good looking or not, not what abilities they have.

Right and you are defining good looks in a man as whatever men who females are attracted to look like, which is a circular argument and stupid. If you paid females millions of dollars to be impregnated by albino dwarves then females would internalize that and be attracted to them. It wouldn't follow that albino dwarves where therefore objectively good looking.

[Cornfed]

It's not a circular argument, you're just bluepilled and don't understand how women work. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it stupid, it's actually the opposite. Women get married to beta providers for their money and abilities yet they're not attracted to them and eventually resent them and either cheat on them with Chad and Tyrone or divorce them completely. You don't understand the difference between actual sexual attraction and what bluepilled conditioning tells you is attractive to women. It happens all the time to bluepilled cucks who get divorced, lose all of their assets and are in denial about being unattractive to women.

In fact females are not just attracted to looks, but you are not going to be able to understand that until you are capable of appreciating very basic logic, which most likely won't happen in this lifetime. As a general rule, if you assume that disagreements are the result of you being a complete idiot rather than any problem with the other guy, you will be right the vast majority of the time. There's a good life hack tip for you.

[Cornfed]

This is bullshit. Everyone that actually has interacted with women and is not a bluepilled beta knows that women judge your personality off of looks and interact differently with you based on looks. Basically to women, if you are good looking then you have a good personality but if you're bad looking then you have a bad personality. You think women are more complex than they actually are.

I've seen men with deformities get hot chicks. Of course you would say that the deformed men must by definition in fact be good looking if chicks are attracted to them, but that's because you're stupid.

[Cornfed]

This is bullshit. Everyone that actually has interacted with women and is not a bluepilled beta knows that women judge your personality off of looks and interact differently with you based on looks. Basically to women, if you are good looking then you have a good personality but if you're bad looking then you have a bad personality. You think women are more complex than they actually are.

I've seen men with deformities get hot chicks. Of course you would say that the deformed men must by definition in fact be good looking if chicks are attracted to them, but that's because you're stupid.

"I know a guy" is the worst argument anyone can make. Not surprising coming from a white trash Neo Nazi.

Wow, you are too stupid to recognise an argument right in front of you. You are obviously also ugly and miserable. Since you are presumably also cowardly on top of everything else you are not going to be able to do the obvious and off yourself, but hopefully you can at least make sure your clot shots are up to date.

[Outcast9428]

Pretty much everyone I’ve asked say they think I’m a 7. That sounds about right to me. I can only tell based on stuff like that though, I can’t instinctively determine masculine attractiveness.

So you can't see a man and tell if he is good-looking either? I would not have known Brad PItt was supposed to be good-looking if I hadn't heard or read it somewhere, and the fact that he was a lead in movies. Same with Tom Cruise.

No I can’t tell. I didn’t know Brad Pitt was good looking either until I heard lots of people saying it online.