Noah's Ark

[MrMan]

I could see how it could go either way in the Biblical text. Ha 'erets.... 'the land' or 'the earth' can refer to a specific land. In some places it refers to the land of Israel.

[fschmidt]

What do you think @fschmidt? Do you believe this story actually happened?

I don't take anything in Genesis literally. But the story of Noah is my favorite fantasy.

[TruthSeeker]

According to ChristianPure the dimensions of the Ark were 140M long, 23M wide and 14M high (I have converted cubits to meters since most of the forum is probably on metric). To put this in perspective the Titanic was 269.1M long. The Ark would have been about half the length of the Titanic. Three levels according to Gen 6:16.

Would that be enough room for the beasts and fowls of the air God specified in Gen. 7:1-3? How would these animals lived cramped in an Ark for approximately 1 year. Some beasts would have had to remain standing. What about exercise? Who cleaned up their dung? What about feeding them?

What about the beasts who were unable to breed after getting out of the ark? Did they just go extinct? Many of these Bible stories are metaphorical and not to be taken literally. However, we can learn from them.

The way it actually happened may be much different that what actually happened.

[Pixel--Dude]

@TruthSeeker
@MrMan
@fschmidt
@Tsar
@Voyager1

Here are some more points, elaborating on some stuff TruthSeeker brought up already.

1. Animal Food.
How the f**k did Noah feed two of every animal? Not only did the Ark have to be big enough to accommodate two of every f***ing animal plus seven of every clean beast, but it would've had to have had enough room to carry enough food to feed all of these animals!

I asked ChatGPT how much meat two lions would need to eat to survive one year.

Lions typically require a substantial amount of meat to sustain themselves throughout the year. On average, a lion eats about 5-7 kg (11-15 lbs) of meat per day. However, their consumption can vary based on factors like availability of prey, the lion's size, and health.

Here’s a breakdown to estimate the annual meat requirement for a lion:

Daily Requirement: 5-7 kg (11-15 lbs) of meat per day.
Annual Requirement: Daily consumption×365

a single lion requires approximately 2,190 kg (4,745 lbs) of meat per year. For two lions, you simply double this amount: So, two lions would need about 4,380 kg (9,490 lbs) of meat annually to survive.

What about elephants?

Elephants are known for their enormous appetites, as they need to consume large quantities of food to sustain their massive bodies. On average, an adult elephant eats about 150-300 kg (330-660 lbs) of food per day. Let's use a conservative estimate of 200 kg (440 lbs) per day to calculate their annual food consumption.

two elephants need approximately 146,000 kg (321,200 lbs) of food per year to survive.

Hippopotamus?

Hippopotamuses are large herbivores that consume significant amounts of vegetation daily. On average, an adult hippo eats about 40 kg (88 lbs) of grass per night, as they are primarily nocturnal feeders.

two hippopotamuses need approximately 29,200 kg (64,240 lbs) of food per year to survive.

I cut out all the formula it quoted because I couldn't copy and paste here without the thread becoming a mess. But with just lions, elephants and hippopotamus Noah would need a total of 394,930 lbs of food to feed two lions, two elephants, and two hippopotamuses for a year. And that's just three different type of animals? How much Ark would Noah need to build just to accommodate all the f***ing food?!

2. Altitude.
In the biblical story of Noah's Ark, the floodwaters are described as rising to a significant height. According to Genesis 7:19-20 in the Bible, the waters rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.

So, according to the biblical account, the floodwaters rose to at least 22.5 feet (6.86 meters) above the highest mountains.

If we consider the biblical text literally and compare it with the highest mountains known today, Noah would have been sailing at least 22.5 feet above the highest mountain peaks, reaching altitudes of around 29,051.5 feet above sea level if including Mount Everest.

So how did Noah and his family and these animals not all freeze to death at this altitude? And even if they didn't freeze to death they'd have been struggling to breathe at 33% less oxygen

3 Aquatic Life.
With sea levels rising so high, one of Voyager's previous statements would be incorrect. I believe most Aquatic Life would die if God caused a biblical flood and here are a few reasons why:

Salinity Changes: A massive influx of freshwater from torrential rain would significantly alter the salinity of the oceans. Many marine organisms are adapted to specific salinity levels, and a sudden change could be detrimental. Freshwater species would also face challenges as their habitats mix with saltwater.

Water Temperature: The mixing of different water bodies and possibly colder rainwater could affect water temperatures. Many aquatic species are sensitive to temperature changes, and drastic shifts could lead to widespread die-offs.

Sedimentation and Debris: The flood would likely carry a tremendous amount of sediment, debris, and pollutants into the water. This influx could smother habitats, reduce light penetration, and disrupt the food chain, impacting both plant and animal life.

Oxygen Levels: The increased sediment and organic material could reduce oxygen levels in the water, leading to hypoxic conditions, which are harmful to most aquatic life.

4. Genetic Diversity
@Lucas88, you've been studying genetics a lot recently. What would be the consequences of only two animals having the responsibility of propagating an entire species? I'm sure even hillbilly inbred bumpkins know that without genetic diversity the consequences of the biblical flood would result in the eventual death of all living things on earth.

@fschmidt haven't you done research into genetics as well? Would this garbage even be scientifically possible and in the realms of reality?

We have to keep in mind that this story is presented in the Bible as a factual event. We can't just cherry pick and decide its an allegory but the rest of the stuff is real. If we're going to f**k around with the meaning of the text then we could literally do that with any part of the Bible... Such as the part where it says it's okay to be gay if you're high on drugs. "A man who lays with another man should be stoned." Leviticus 20:13

Conclusion
With some logical thinking we can see how ridiculous this story actually is! How can people really believe this garbage is real?! It defies all common sense!

[MrMan]

First of all, I am not convinced that the story of the flood would require that the flood be global. 'Under heaven might refer to one end of The horizon to the other. Babylonians were described as coming from the end of heaven but when you got to Babylon that was still sky there.

H'eretz.and is translated from Hebrew as the Earth but he could also be translated the land and sometimes her for a specifically to the land of Israel depending on the context.

From what I read scientists have made discoveries that indicate that there is an ocean underground deep down under there that is actually bigger than the oceans on the earth. some portion of the earth is made up of compressed high pressure solid water such as ice IV or ice V. so there's plenty of water down there for water to come from the great deep.

if a boat were floating above the surface 20 miles above where we are now but it's surrounded by water all around I would not think that they would freeze or that there would be no oxygen because the water regulates the temperature and also you have the air being pushed up higher.

But Noah's flood requires numerous miracles and extra little miracles are needed to preserve their lives then I don't see how that's a big issue.

As for animals, it it were not global, that's fewer animal. I would imagine baby lions would be easier to feed. Maybe there was a proto-great-cat species.

There's a man named Philip Williams who wrote about how NAMI, a Chinese Christian group, went up to the remains of the ark on Mt. Ararat. he with a tour guide took the arduous trek up the mountain with another American woman he said he did the lady's first thing so he was the second American and first American man into the ark as far as he knew. so he went into the wooden structure up there and posted his pictures of you know wood peg type architecture where they cut out with pigs and slide it into grooves or holes that they cut into the wood that sort of thing.

Then various scholars joined together and call the whole thing of hoax even though they wouldn't look at the information or go look at the ark. they basically accused his tour guide, Parusut... or some name like that... who took him up there being a con man

[Pixel--Dude]

First of all, I am not convinced that the story of the flood would require that the flood be global. 'Under heaven might refer to one end of The horizon to the other. Babylonians were described as coming from the end of heaven but when you got to Babylon that was still sky there.

H'eretz.and is translated from Hebrew as the Earth but he could also be translated the land and sometimes her for a specifically to the land of Israel depending on the context.

From what I read scientists have made discoveries that indicate that there is an ocean underground deep down under there that is actually bigger than the oceans on the earth. some portion of the earth is made up of compressed high pressure solid water such as ice IV or ice V. so there's plenty of water down there for water to come from the great deep.

if a boat were floating above the surface 20 miles above where we are now but it's surrounded by water all around I would not think that they would freeze or that there would be no oxygen because the water regulates the temperature and also you have the air being pushed up higher.

But Noah's flood requires numerous miracles and extra little miracles are needed to preserve their lives then I don't see how that's a big issue.

As for animals, it it were not global, that's fewer animal. I would imagine baby lions would be easier to feed. Maybe there was a proto-great-cat species.

There's a man named Philip Williams who wrote about how NAMI, a Chinese Christian group, went up to the remains of the ark on Mt. Ararat. he with a tour guide took the arduous trek up the mountain with another American woman he said he did the lady's first thing so he was the second American and first American man into the ark as far as he knew. so he went into the wooden structure up there and posted his pictures of you know wood peg type architecture where they cut out with pigs and slide it into grooves or holes that they cut into the wood that sort of thing.

Then various scholars joined together and call the whole thing of hoax even though they wouldn't look at the information or go look at the ark. they basically accused his tour guide, Parusut... or some name like that... who took him up there being a con man

If it were localised flooding then why would Noah need to spend a year on the ark? Why wouldn't he just sail to a nearby land and go there instead? Seems a bit of a stretch to say it was localised floods anyway, the Bible says the flood water reached something like 20ft taller than the highest mountains. How could floods that completely submerge mountains be localised to one area?

Why didn't God just kill all the naughty people with magic heart attacks? Even Light Yagami from Death Note could do that. Does that mean that Light is more powerful than God?

Furthermore, why didn't God know that all he had to do was send his one true son to Earth to absolve sin anyway? Wouldn't he have known that if he was so powerful?

[MrMan]

First of all, I am not convinced that the story of the flood would require that the flood be global. 'Under heaven might refer to one end of The horizon to the other. Babylonians were described as coming from the end of heaven but when you got to Babylon that was still sky there.

H'eretz.and is translated from Hebrew as the Earth but he could also be translated the land and sometimes her for a specifically to the land of Israel depending on the context.

From what I read scientists have made discoveries that indicate that there is an ocean underground deep down under there that is actually bigger than the oceans on the earth. some portion of the earth is made up of compressed high pressure solid water such as ice IV or ice V. so there's plenty of water down there for water to come from the great deep.

if a boat were floating above the surface 20 miles above where we are now but it's surrounded by water all around I would not think that they would freeze or that there would be no oxygen because the water regulates the temperature and also you have the air being pushed up higher.

But Noah's flood requires numerous miracles and extra little miracles are needed to preserve their lives then I don't see how that's a big issue.

As for animals, it it were not global, that's fewer animal. I would imagine baby lions would be easier to feed. Maybe there was a proto-great-cat species.

There's a man named Philip Williams who wrote about how NAMI, a Chinese Christian group, went up to the remains of the ark on Mt. Ararat. he with a tour guide took the arduous trek up the mountain with another American woman he said he did the lady's first thing so he was the second American and first American man into the ark as far as he knew. so he went into the wooden structure up there and posted his pictures of you know wood peg type architecture where they cut out with pigs and slide it into grooves or holes that they cut into the wood that sort of thing.

Then various scholars joined together and call the whole thing of hoax even though they wouldn't look at the information or go look at the ark. they basically accused his tour guide, Parusut... or some name like that... who took him up there being a con man

If it were localised flooding then why would Noah need to spend a year on the ark? Why wouldn't he just sail to a nearby land and go there instead? Seems a bit of a stretch to say it was localised floods anyway, the Bible says the flood water reached something like 20ft taller than the highest mountains. How could floods that completely submerge mountains be localised to one area?

The flood was a miracle. Either way, it requires a huge quality of water.

Why didn't God just kill all the naughty people with magic heart attacks? Even Light Yagami from Death Note could do that. Does that mean that Light is more powerful than God?

As a pagan, you believe there are a lot of powerful spiritual entities out there. You should be careful with the disrespect. I'd never heard of Light Yagama. Apparently it's a fictional character. But why would God give everyone heart attacks when he could wash them away in a great flood?

[WanderingProtagonist]

First of all, I am not convinced that the story of the flood would require that the flood be global. 'Under heaven might refer to one end of The horizon to the other. Babylonians were described as coming from the end of heaven but when you got to Babylon that was still sky there.

H'eretz.and is translated from Hebrew as the Earth but he could also be translated the land and sometimes her for a specifically to the land of Israel depending on the context.

From what I read scientists have made discoveries that indicate that there is an ocean underground deep down under there that is actually bigger than the oceans on the earth. some portion of the earth is made up of compressed high pressure solid water such as ice IV or ice V. so there's plenty of water down there for water to come from the great deep.

if a boat were floating above the surface 20 miles above where we are now but it's surrounded by water all around I would not think that they would freeze or that there would be no oxygen because the water regulates the temperature and also you have the air being pushed up higher.

But Noah's flood requires numerous miracles and extra little miracles are needed to preserve their lives then I don't see how that's a big issue.

As for animals, it it were not global, that's fewer animal. I would imagine baby lions would be easier to feed. Maybe there was a proto-great-cat species.

There's a man named Philip Williams who wrote about how NAMI, a Chinese Christian group, went up to the remains of the ark on Mt. Ararat. he with a tour guide took the arduous trek up the mountain with another American woman he said he did the lady's first thing so he was the second American and first American man into the ark as far as he knew. so he went into the wooden structure up there and posted his pictures of you know wood peg type architecture where they cut out with pigs and slide it into grooves or holes that they cut into the wood that sort of thing.

Then various scholars joined together and call the whole thing of hoax even though they wouldn't look at the information or go look at the ark. they basically accused his tour guide, Parusut... or some name like that... who took him up there being a con man

If it were localised flooding then why would Noah need to spend a year on the ark? Why wouldn't he just sail to a nearby land and go there instead? Seems a bit of a stretch to say it was localised floods anyway, the Bible says the flood water reached something like 20ft taller than the highest mountains. How could floods that completely submerge mountains be localised to one area?

The flood was a miracle. Either way, it requires a huge quality of water.

Why didn't God just kill all the naughty people with magic heart attacks? Even Light Yagami from Death Note could do that. Does that mean that Light is more powerful than God?

As a pagan, you believe there are a lot of powerful spiritual entities out there. You should be careful with the disrespect. I'd never heard of Light Yagama. Apparently it's a fictional character. But why would God give everyone heart attacks when he could wash them away in a great flood?

All GODs are pretty much fictional beings, people made them up. Hell India have dozens of GODs they worship and believe in. Yet the one GOD claiming all others to be false was invented by the people of Israel.

[Pixel--Dude]

First of all, I am not convinced that the story of the flood would require that the flood be global. 'Under heaven might refer to one end of The horizon to the other. Babylonians were described as coming from the end of heaven but when you got to Babylon that was still sky there.

H'eretz.and is translated from Hebrew as the Earth but he could also be translated the land and sometimes her for a specifically to the land of Israel depending on the context.

From what I read scientists have made discoveries that indicate that there is an ocean underground deep down under there that is actually bigger than the oceans on the earth. some portion of the earth is made up of compressed high pressure solid water such as ice IV or ice V. so there's plenty of water down there for water to come from the great deep.

if a boat were floating above the surface 20 miles above where we are now but it's surrounded by water all around I would not think that they would freeze or that there would be no oxygen because the water regulates the temperature and also you have the air being pushed up higher.

But Noah's flood requires numerous miracles and extra little miracles are needed to preserve their lives then I don't see how that's a big issue.

As for animals, it it were not global, that's fewer animal. I would imagine baby lions would be easier to feed. Maybe there was a proto-great-cat species.

There's a man named Philip Williams who wrote about how NAMI, a Chinese Christian group, went up to the remains of the ark on Mt. Ararat. he with a tour guide took the arduous trek up the mountain with another American woman he said he did the lady's first thing so he was the second American and first American man into the ark as far as he knew. so he went into the wooden structure up there and posted his pictures of you know wood peg type architecture where they cut out with pigs and slide it into grooves or holes that they cut into the wood that sort of thing.

Then various scholars joined together and call the whole thing of hoax even though they wouldn't look at the information or go look at the ark. they basically accused his tour guide, Parusut... or some name like that... who took him up there being a con man

If it were localised flooding then why would Noah need to spend a year on the ark? Why wouldn't he just sail to a nearby land and go there instead? Seems a bit of a stretch to say it was localised floods anyway, the Bible says the flood water reached something like 20ft taller than the highest mountains. How could floods that completely submerge mountains be localised to one area?

The flood was a miracle. Either way, it requires a huge quality of water.

Why didn't God just kill all the naughty people with magic heart attacks? Even Light Yagami from Death Note could do that. Does that mean that Light is more powerful than God?

As a pagan, you believe there are a lot of powerful spiritual entities out there. You should be careful with the disrespect. I'd never heard of Light Yagama. Apparently it's a fictional character. But why would God give everyone heart attacks when he could wash them away in a great flood?

All GODs are pretty much fictional beings, people made them up. Hell India have dozens of GODs they worship and believe in. Yet the one GOD claiming all others to be false was invented by the people of Israel.

Concise and well said. What proof do these delusional Christians have that their god is the only real god and the rest are fake? It's pure delusion.

[Pixel--Dude]

The flood was a miracle. Either way, it requires a huge quality of water.

You think millions of people dying in a flood is a miracle? Kids, babies and animals drowned for what? If you believe this is a miracle you are insane.

As a pagan, you believe there are a lot of powerful spiritual entities out there. You should be careful with the disrespect. I'd never heard of Light Yagama. Apparently it's a fictional character. But why would God give everyone heart attacks when he could wash them away in a great flood?

Disrespect towards you or to your god? I don't have anything against you personally, but I do think your faith in Christianity is totally misplaced. If Yahweh did exist the Gnostics have the right idea about him. There's more evidence for Yahweh being evil that being good, and that's not just what we can see happening in the world, that's just using evidence from the Bible

Why wouldn't God use magic heart attacks? Then not only would he not need to kill hundreds of different animals for no good reason, he wouldn't need to kill innocent babies and children. How can you make excuses for this? You worship a death cult and a god which murders infants on more than one occasion. No sane person would ever worship something so evil. You've been hoodwinked and totally brainwashed. You're a fool.