What EXACT year did American women change?

[E_Irizarry]

BTW, don't get me wrong, I don't think Madonna's a terrible artist by any stretch of the imagination. She does put in a lot of work and she did put out a good product (at least until 1998), albeit with a huge entourage of company people. She is an industry in herself.

But on the flipside, I don't believe she's a great talent in the likes of a Stevie Nicks, Joan Jett, Chrissie Hynde, Deborah Harry, Tina Turner, Ann Wilson, or Linda Ronstadt. Those were her predecessors and they succeeded in much more organic manner and had the real "gal power", which is intrinsic in the fact that they had talent and put it to use without making their stage/touring persona about overwhelming others (esp men).

You know your female talented rock singers. Don't forget about Barbara Streisand (the broad could sing - get past her Anglo-Jewishness lol), Pat Benatar and Janis Joplin. The only female rock/blues singer that has nice pipes now is bi-racial newcomer Brittany Howard (i.e. lead singer from Alabama Shakes).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le-3MIBxQTw&hd=1[/youtube]

[E_Irizarry]

Well from what I see in the Black American community, women have been showing their a_ss since '68. Right after Malcolm X and MLK were bumped off, CIA featuring Gloria Steinem released smash hit singles to the Black community like

"Black Woman You Don't Have A Man In The House Anymore-or"
"Section 8 Is So Great"
"You Are The Rock And The Foundation (You're The Inspiration Remix))"

They went viral by 8-Track on RCA/Victor REcords.

Record stores in the 'hood were on back-order of the sh_t, man.

Then once that had began to happen, Black women became narcissistic and them some.

Watch Soul Train avaiable on Blu Ray now....they have commercials in 1972 where the Black guy was trying to solicit a Black woman in the clip to try Afro-Sheen and she already had a snarl snide attitude towards him in distrust from the jump. :-/

[Billy]

Comeon. It´s not that bad. I am currently in Turkey. And all they talk is getting married. Let us live free and so on.

[E_Irizarry]

Comeon. It´s not that bad. I am currently in Turkey. And all they talk is getting married. Let us live free and so on.

Que paso con Argentina?? What had happened there, man?

[S_Parc]

Again I'd say around 1997. Why? Media Media and Media.

I'd eye balled it at around the 3-4 year mark of Madonna's 'Like A Prayer' CD so that's around '92-'93. I guess by '97, the door was fully sealed.

What Madonna was, was the anti-thesis of a Deborah Harry or an Ann Wilson (of the band Heart). She was the average talent, social climbing skank, who became the role model for the modern American woman. Realize, in order to be Deb or Ann, one needs either some serious vocals or song writing talent [ Deb Harry had 'em both], in addition to being pretty/cute. Most, I'd say 95% of AWs, can't rise to the challenge of being a true musical talent or virtuoso in any way. Just look at all of Cindy Crawford's botched singing or acting stints throughout her days as a Revlon girl. All Cindy ever was, was a pretty cover girl.

Madonna, however, flipped the parameters upside down. She made it all about 'shock & awe' and posed herself as a tease/bimbo/slut. Now, that's something any average talent skank AW could do, to garner attention. Remember her *gal pal* advise in "Express Yourself" (also from the 'Like A Prayer' CD) ... `What you need is a big strong hand. To lift you to your higher ground. Make you feel like a queen on a throne. Make him love you till you can't come down`. Well, then that music video had a bunch of laboring/slave men, whose role it was to pleasure her at her beckoned call. It really sent out the message, all the way back in '89. Now that it's 2012, why should anything be a surprise anymore?

I agree - I really noticed the change in girls around 1991 when Madonna sang "don't go for 2nd best baby" - also women's roles on TV/Films changed into smirking prostitutes e.g. Sharon Stone in total recall, basic instinct...

That song was "Express Yourself" from 'Like A Prayer' in 89. It's interesting that we all cued in on the same flashpoint. As an innocent teenager, I had no idea that that was the beginning of the end for AWs. Perhaps I should have seen it, as a good omen, in the sense that I'd stopped dating AWs, after the decade which followed that song. I should be grateful because where the guys, older than me (perhaps +7-12 years), probably dreamed about Debbie Harry or Pat Benatar, but in my case, I was quite happy, fleeing from any place, ruled by the likes of Madonna.

[S_Parc]

BTW, don't get me wrong, I don't think Madonna's a terrible artist by any stretch of the imagination. She does put in a lot of work and she did put out a good product (at least until 1998), albeit with a huge entourage of company people. She is an industry in herself.

But on the flipside, I don't believe she's a great talent in the likes of a Stevie Nicks, Joan Jett, Chrissie Hynde, Deborah Harry, Tina Turner, Ann Wilson, or Linda Ronstadt. Those were her predecessors and they succeeded in much more organic manner and had the real "gal power", which is intrinsic in the fact that they had talent and put it to use without making their stage/touring persona about overwhelming others (esp men).

You know your female talented rock singers. Don't forget about Barbara Streisand (the broad could sing - get past her Anglo-Jewishness lol), Pat Benatar and Janis Joplin.

I was going to put Grace Slick, Pat Benatar, and Janis on my list but I guess I was unconsciously worried that it would look too much like a Rolling Stones article than my own writing. But I'm guilty of having forgotten Barbara, as many of her devoted fans were a lot older than me.

[bennandsarah]

Summing things up ....I think around 1991 it was a fast decline (the madonna influence) -- but as early as the late 60's "times they were a changing for AW" -- but after Sept 11, 2001 it was the final nail in the coffin.

right now i'm watching an early 60's jerry lewis movie -- the women then were like polar opposites of what we have today.

[polya]

Again I'd say around 1997. Why? Media Media and Media.

I'd eye balled it at around the 3-4 year mark of Madonna's 'Like A Prayer' CD so that's around '92-'93. I guess by '97, the door was fully sealed.

What Madonna was, was the anti-thesis of a Deborah Harry or an Ann Wilson (of the band Heart). She was the average talent, social climbing skank, who became the role model for the modern American woman. Realize, in order to be Deb or Ann, one needs either some serious vocals or song writing talent [ Deb Harry had 'em both], in addition to being pretty/cute. Most, I'd say 95% of AWs, can't rise to the challenge of being a true musical talent or virtuoso in any way. Just look at all of Cindy Crawford's botched singing or acting stints throughout her days as a Revlon girl. All Cindy ever was, was a pretty cover girl.

Madonna, however, flipped the parameters upside down. She made it all about 'shock & awe' and posed herself as a tease/bimbo/slut. Now, that's something any average talent skank AW could do, to garner attention. Remember her *gal pal* advise in "Express Yourself" (also from the 'Like A Prayer' CD) ... `What you need is a big strong hand. To lift you to your higher ground. Make you feel like a queen on a throne. Make him love you till you can't come down`. Well, then that music video had a bunch of laboring/slave men, whose role it was to pleasure her at her beckoned call. It really sent out the message, all the way back in '89. Now that it's 2012, why should anything be a surprise anymore?

I agree - I really noticed the change in girls around 1991 when Madonna sang "don't go for 2nd best baby" - also women's roles on TV/Films changed into smirking prostitutes e.g. Sharon Stone in total recall, basic instinct...

That song was "Express Yourself" from 'Like A Prayer' in 89. It's interesting that we all cued in on the same flashpoint. As an innocent teenager, I had no idea that that was the beginning of the end for AWs. Perhaps I should have seen it, as a good omen, in the sense that I'd stopped dating AWs, after the decade which followed that song. I should be grateful because where the guys, older than me (perhaps +7-12 years), probably dreamed about Debbie Harry or Pat Benatar, but in my case, I was quite happy, fleeing from any place, ruled by the likes of Madonna.

I totally agree & although we could say it staredin the 1910s when women can vote, women really became worthless after 1989 that's for sure. It really is pointless to marry these shrews now so I hope they soon die in the up coming famine.

[S_Parc]

Since AW singers are a part of this topic, I figured I'd reiterate what I'd said about the consortium known as Jefferson Airplane/Jefferson Starship, then finally, Starship.

During the Summer of Love '67, the band Jefferson Airplane (started by Paul Kantner), arose on the lead vocals of Grace Slick, who in parallel with Janis Joplin, were considered the two primary American female rock vocalists of their generation. Ok, I'll concur with that statement ... at least from Airplane's "Surrealistic Pillow" till their breakup in the early 70s. Think of 'White Rabbit' and 'Someone to Love', if you want to recall the prior era radio classics.

Afterwards, once hippydom was in decline, the band needed to go along the lines of actually being a business of sorts. The subsequent band, Jefferson Starship, was re-imagined by Paul Kantner/Marty Balin and was pretty much "successful" (I guess in a 'Supertramp' West Coast 'Steely Dan' style of sorts ) throughout the 70s and into the early 80s, with Balin as the primary lead vocalist. Personally, I think that they're mediocre and have limited talents in terms of writing moving tracks but that's my own personal take on 'em. I regret having actually bought two of their albums from a yard sale

Throughout this time period, Grace Slick was kept around for "backup" vocals and the fact that for some reason, they needed to always showcase that she was around. Slick, however, was dealing with substance abuse issues and never lived up to her expectations of her role as America's first lady of rock. Thus, for the most part, Marty Balin, alongside Kantner, was holding up the business throughout the years, since the 60s had ended. His voice is the lead on all of Jefferson Starship's recordings. Grace was barely audible, even when she wasn't jacked up.

Well finally, when Grace did start singing in the limelight again, they re-formed into Starship and put out even cheesier music during the 80s as a Marty/Grace duet w/o Paul, since Kantner refused to have his legacy tarnished by pop trash. I guess she'd finally cleaned up her act, before it was too late for posterity sakes.

So while I don't really care for the above band and its history, I did recognize one thing. If Marty Balin was not holding down the fort for all those lean years, Grace Slick today would have been a forgotten derelict in a Methadone clinic, not a famous retired rock star. Her legacy from the 60s would have been completely erased, due to years of drug issues and the fact that on her own, she was mostly worthless without an entire organization around her. Once again, an ordinary "soprano" man, Marty Balin, along with the ring leader, Paul Kantner, made an AW look good for the history books.

[fschmidt]

I would say that the biggest changes were in the 1920s, second was the 1970s.

[Falcon]

OK, here's Winston in the early 1990's. I could not get this in high school (mid-late 2000's) or college (now).

Post-graduation life and first relationships

After finishing my last year of high school, I went to a community college and met my first girlfriend, a cute petite Vietnamese Accounting student named Phuong Nguyen.

But after two years together, we split due to irreconcilable differences and incompatibility, but remained friends.

A few years later, I graduated from California State University Hayward with a business degree in Marketing and Computer Information Systems. Then I moved to Washington state to be with my next and long-time girlfriend, Robin LaFleur, whom I met on the internet.

And Repatriate's earlier experiences were not like my later ones at all.

My experiences with AA [Asian-American] girls haven't been that bad at all..actually pretty average most of the time. I do feel that the experience in Asia is far superior though.

Well, Repatriate had left for Thailand quite some years ago. Things would have changed a lot in the U.S. since then.

A Korean-American woman's posts on this forum should be pretty self-explanatory: search.php?search_author=krnshorty213


Women have also changed in wealthy urban Chinese cities since the Chinese economy took off at turbo speed. But these changes have been advantageous for our fellow friends Rock, xiongmao, among others.

[chanta76]

I just turned 36 years old so I didn't grow up during the 60's or even early 70's. The 1980's I was too young to notice anything.

I would say from hearing other people the 1960's onwards there was allot of social changes. Some good some bad. What happened was things became too permissive. And it still is today. It's like we became progressive but it's not being kept in check.

Family values is gone. The concept of traditional marriage or sex roles is gone but it's still a double standard towards men but not towards women. That's what gets me mad. Men have to rise up and really voice this but we don't. That's the difference between the women lib movement vs any type of men movement. Instead men are labeled as sexist or too lazy etc...etc...

I also agree that media role models plays a factor and forms identity. Again being too permissive is the problem. It's like being bad or being a rebel is cool but it's also a double standard.

The only way for us to get back to roots is some major war that changes society where we have to get back to basics. Or something like that....because women act like men..I understand why some guys don't want to take responsibility. The feminist movement in many ways help killed the family. Women do not realize how much importance being a mother or a wife is. Fathers and husband have their role but that role is still expected for men to be the primary bread winner but except that fathers or husband have to be more sensitive. Even if men became more sensitive (which I think men have ) women did not progress in a positive way.

[S_Parc]

The only way for us to get back to roots is some major war that changes society where we have to get back to basics. Or something like that....

Except that the future panorama is pushing more and more towards automation and robotics. Thus, the current malaise of ppl being hooked to their tablets and handhelds is only going to get worse, with virtual reality and robotic companions.

Here's my thread on this topic matter ...

viewtopic.php?t=10078

[fschmidt]

The only way for us to get back to roots is some major war that changes society where we have to get back to basics.

Not true, you can join a society that isn't feminist. Options include Orthodox Judaism, Islam, and possibly Japan.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

They didnt change...they have always been the same. Try reading assembly women.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assemblywomen