What is the natural age of consent?

[publicduende]

Raised by myself and my ex...more than half of her time has been with me and since she gets such compliments, which my ex finds flattering, she pretty well sticks to the routine I insist on. The last two years has been busy so she has been more with my ex, but now she is coming to spend time in the Philippines again.

She has been mostly home schooled and now she is deciding if she wants to spend time in a private school for high school or continue with home schooling. Most likely she will opt for home schooling as she can zoom and will likely graduate from high school by the time she is 16. She then wants to spend a year traveling with me.

Outwest

Beautiful. I'm truly happy for you. You know I see you as one of the best and wisest people in here, and I'm not surprised your daughter is being raised well, with all the good values, and will surely grow up to be somebody with a great deal of intellectual independence, balance and self-respect (which, contrary to what some here think, do not equate to feminism). She may well be from a divorced couple, yet I feel her current personality is the reflection of lots of hard work done when she was a child and you were still together. Then of course, I can assume, you didn't go through a nasty divorce process, your ex-wife definitely cares about her as much as you do and is not using your daughter as ammunition to make claims on herself.

Mate, I found this story refreshing. Not to lie some more cheese in here, but I should truly thank you for representing an island of sanity in this batter place.

[OutWest]

Raised by myself and my ex...more than half of her time has been with me and since she gets such compliments, which my ex finds flattering, she pretty well sticks to the routine I insist on. The last two years has been busy so she has been more with my ex, but now she is coming to spend time in the Philippines again.

She has been mostly home schooled and now she is deciding if she wants to spend time in a private school for high school or continue with home schooling. Most likely she will opt for home schooling as she can zoom and will likely graduate from high school by the time she is 16. She then wants to spend a year traveling with me.

Outwest

Beautiful. I'm truly happy for you. You know I see you as one of the best and wisest people in here, and I'm not surprised your daughter is being raised well, with all the good values, and will surely grow up to be somebody with a great deal of intellectual independence, balance and self-respect (which, contrary to what some here think, do not equate to feminism). She may well be from a divorced couple, yet I feel her current personality is the reflection of lots of hard work done when she was a child and you were still together. Then of course, I can assume, you didn't go through a nasty divorce process, your ex-wife definitely cares about her as much as you do and is not using your daughter as ammunition to make claims on herself.

Mate, I found this story refreshing. Not to lie some more cheese in here, but I should truly thank you for representing an island of sanity in this batter place.

"Mothers have children....children have fathers."

Thank you for the kind words...While my daughter is a pretty exceptional girl- what I really see as unusual in a negative way is the degree to which the American public has accepted public education and culture as a deliberate retardation imposed on their children.

Public education = soul death for most children....

outwest

[zacb]

I saw this in my peers when I was homeschooled. It seems like Night of the Living Dead or something. I seriously doubt I would be as open and knowledgable if I was in public education. I kind of laugh at this one poster, " (Where I live) Public Schools , the Best Option!". I thought about that for a sec. Who the heck is competing with them? There is one charter school, but it is kind of preppy, and Ithink it is part of this district anyways. And then there is a small Methodist school, but it is kind of insignificant. So it seems to me that the only other option would be homeschooling. Maybe I am just a conspiracy theorist. Lol

[publicduende]

Homeschooling is illegal in Italy and, as far as I know, in the UK as well. In Italy, all children from 6 to 14 must to go through a 5 year primary school plus 3 year junior high school cycle. Any combination of public and private schools is fine, as long as a child has 8 years of compulsory education at one or more licensed institutions.

I still remember my childhood school years very fondly. Italian public school has long been one of the few solid pillars of democracy. All public schools are usually underfunded, with a pretty random mix of excellent, good and mediocre teachers because headmasters don't decide which teachers will move to his schools, a separate public institution does. Yet, the good thing is that a child from the poorest family in town will share classes with a doctor's, lawyer's and enterpreneur's son, and all are taught, evaluated and graded the same way. Also, public schools in Italy are virtually free, the only costs being that of books and stationery. It is, or at least used to be, a great place to socialise and find long-lasting friendships, as classes are fixed and teachers visit us for the lecture, so you will be sharing 5 or 6 hours a day with the same kids for 5 and 3 years in a row. It's exactly the same in high school, which lasts 4 or 5 years.

So how does homeschooling work in the US? A child is withdrawn, or never sent to school, and their education becomes entirely their parents' responsibility? Or families can choose private tutors who will visit at their places and give tuitions? Isn't there some sort of state curriculum that needs be followed? I assume the child will have to sit the same kind of public exam at the end of each cycle whether they're homeschooled or not?

To reconnect somewhat to the original topic, how does homeschooling improve a child's chances to grow up smarter, wiser and more ambitious? I assume one positive is that a homeschooled child is not exposed to the chance of being bullied by peers or humiliated by teachers. Wouldn't that also backfire in the sense that the same child loses the chance to interact with their age group and stunts the development of those precious social skills they will need later in life?

Outwest et al. if you have some time, feel free to elaborate. I'm definitely interested.

[publicduende]

"Mothers have children....children have fathers."

Thank you for the kind words...While my daughter is a pretty exceptional girl- what I really see as unusual in a negative way is the degree to which the American public has accepted public education and culture as a deliberate retardation imposed on their children.

Public education = soul death for most children....

outwest

It's very sad to hear that public education in the US has become pointless to the extent that children learn more and grow more self-confident when not interacting with their peers. I remember bullying was part of every child's life in my school years too, yet no parent in their right mind would think of sending their son to another school, or withdraw him from schooling. I started primary school at 5 (instead of 6) and started junior high school at 10 (instead of 11), so I was smaller and more fragile than many of my classmates. My first year was a bit rough and tough, as a few of the smaller boys including myself were regularly pushed, shouted at. There were a couple of occasions where I would go back home with ripped clothes, or broken books. Luckily, it only lasted a few months, as I managed to find a way to stop being picked on and be respected: ridicule the usual culprits by saying something ironic against them in front of everyone. After a few good ones of these remarks and the entire classroom bursting into laughter (sometimes even the teacher), they stopped picking on me.

From what I hear, bullying has become more of a problem in recent years, in Italy as well. I have a few younger cousins, the eldest being 24 and the youngest 19, and never heard any episode of bullying against them. They're all nice, smart and confident young men and women. All of them went to public schools and all but one are going to public university.

[OutWest]

Homeschooling is illegal in Italy and, as far as I know, in the UK as well. In Italy, all children from 6 to 14 must to go through a 5 year primary school plus 3 year junior high school cycle. Any combination of public and private schools is fine, as long as a child has 8 years of compulsory education at one or more licensed institutions.

I still remember my childhood school years very fondly. Italian public school has long been one of the few solid pillars of democracy. All public schools are usually underfunded, with a pretty random mix of excellent, good and mediocre teachers because headmasters don't decide which teachers will move to his schools, a separate public institution does. Yet, the good thing is that a child from the poorest family in town will share classes with a doctor's, lawyer's and enterpreneur's son, and all are taught, evaluated and graded the same way. Also, public schools in Italy are virtually free, the only costs being that of books and stationery. It is, or at least used to be, a great place to socialise and find long-lasting friendships, as classes are fixed and teachers visit us for the lecture, so you will be sharing 5 or 6 hours a day with the same kids for 5 and 3 years in a row. It's exactly the same in high school, which lasts 4 or 5 years.

So how does homeschooling work in the US? A child is withdrawn, or never sent to school, and their education becomes entirely their parents' responsibility? Or families can choose private tutors who will visit at their places and give tuitions? Isn't there some sort of state curriculum that needs be followed? I assume the child will have to sit the same kind of public exam at the end of each cycle whether they're homeschooled or not?

To reconnect somewhat to the original topic, how does homeschooling improve a child's chances to grow up smarter, wiser and more ambitious? I assume one positive is that a homeschooled child is not exposed to the chance of being bullied by peers or humiliated by teachers. Wouldn't that also backfire in the sense that the same child loses the chance to interact with their age group and stunts the development of those precious social skills they will need later in life?

Outwest et al. if you have some time, feel free to elaborate. I'm definitely interested.

Home schooling is certainly not for everyone. However, the cautions you note are in fact repeats of what the party line is about public education, especially in the US. Done right, home school produces a child who is BETTER adjusted socially by far. how natural is it for a person to be cloistered with 25 exact same age "peers"? This is a very useful tool for industrial model education, allowing peer enforcement of state propaganda. By the way, in home school states like Arizona and many others, there are extensive home school organizations that have all kinds of joint fun activities- far more than you are likely to use.

The most common compliment I get with my daughter is how naturally sociable she is. She has no idea of a "generation gap" (A synthetic invention) and can easily talk to anyone, age 6 to 60. She has an incredible sense of independence and autonomy, which is very unlikely to happen in public schools - at least in the USA.

Done right, the home school student ends up with SUPERIOR social skills - my daughter certainly has. I consider the home school option to be an essential political freedom and a country that does not allow it is poorer for it.

Yes, there are some standards tests that need to be used, especially once the student is in high school. Home school students consistently score in the upper percentiles on average, and in fact, home schoolers are now actively recruited by some of the top universities in the US.

I will gladly answer an other questions you might have.


Outwest

[zacb]

I would like to point out the history of public schooling, which is not pretty. (Please note, I am not trying to knock public schooling, just stating a few things) Anyways, it started it modern datly Germany, with Prussian schools, whoses goal was to strip the individuality feom the child. We saw what happened with that. Then in the case of John Dewey, who is the father of modern education, wanted to rewire society to his whims, and eliminate the things that help form this nation. Then with the introduction of public education, there is the problem of equality, in the case of seperation of church and state. And a similar problem related to the latter is if you treat everyone the same, will they necessarily have the same outcome? No, because everyone learns differently. And so that mean it would be bette rif they are taught based upon common denominators, rather than bassed upon preconstructed borders.

Also, while I don't know the history of your edu system (UK), but in the case of the United States, we have had a steong history of private schools. Much of our initial education was home and church based. Matter of fact, one ministered remarked on how ignorance was a tool of the devil, and how he used it to keep men blind to the truth. Putting religious differences aside, that is remarkable not only for then, but for now! Think of a pastor saying that now. Anyways, back to another point. One of the first public schools was actually a sunday school. Dwight L. Moody saw the lack of education of the children of Chicago, and had an idea. He brought in children from the streets and taught them. And that was the founding of the YMCA. It kind of is a stark contrast to the Church of today(on a side note)

[publicduende]

Homeschooling is illegal in Italy and, as far as I know, in the UK as well. In Italy, all children from 6 to 14 must to go through a 5 year primary school plus 3 year junior high school cycle. Any combination of public and private schools is fine, as long as a child has 8 years of compulsory education at one or more licensed institutions.

I still remember my childhood school years very fondly. Italian public school has long been one of the few solid pillars of democracy. All public schools are usually underfunded, with a pretty random mix of excellent, good and mediocre teachers because headmasters don't decide which teachers will move to his schools, a separate public institution does. Yet, the good thing is that a child from the poorest family in town will share classes with a doctor's, lawyer's and enterpreneur's son, and all are taught, evaluated and graded the same way. Also, public schools in Italy are virtually free, the only costs being that of books and stationery. It is, or at least used to be, a great place to socialise and find long-lasting friendships, as classes are fixed and teachers visit us for the lecture, so you will be sharing 5 or 6 hours a day with the same kids for 5 and 3 years in a row. It's exactly the same in high school, which lasts 4 or 5 years.

So how does homeschooling work in the US? A child is withdrawn, or never sent to school, and their education becomes entirely their parents' responsibility? Or families can choose private tutors who will visit at their places and give tuitions? Isn't there some sort of state curriculum that needs be followed? I assume the child will have to sit the same kind of public exam at the end of each cycle whether they're homeschooled or not?

To reconnect somewhat to the original topic, how does homeschooling improve a child's chances to grow up smarter, wiser and more ambitious? I assume one positive is that a homeschooled child is not exposed to the chance of being bullied by peers or humiliated by teachers. Wouldn't that also backfire in the sense that the same child loses the chance to interact with their age group and stunts the development of those precious social skills they will need later in life?

Outwest et al. if you have some time, feel free to elaborate. I'm definitely interested.

Home schooling is certainly not for everyone. However, the cautions you note are in fact repeats of what the party line is about public education, especially in the US. Done right, home school produces a child who is BETTER adjusted socially by far. how natural is it for a person to be cloistered with 25 exact same age "peers"? This is a very useful tool for industrial model education, allowing peer enforcement of state propaganda. By the way, in home school states like Arizona and many others, there are extensive home school organizations that have all kinds of joint fun activities- far more than you are likely to use.

The most common compliment I get with my daughter is how naturally sociable she is. She has no idea of a "generation gap" (A synthetic invention) and can easily talk to anyone, age 6 to 60. She has an incredible sense of independence and autonomy, which is very unlikely to happen in public schools - at least in the USA.

Done right, the home school student ends up with SUPERIOR social skills - my daughter certainly has. I consider the home school option to be an essential political freedom and a country that does not allow it is poorer for it.

Yes, there are some standards tests that need to be used, especially once the student is in high school. Home school students consistently score in the upper percentiles on average, and in fact, home schoolers are now actively recruited by some of the top universities in the US.

I will gladly answer an other questions you might have.


Outwest

Thanks for adding more to the topic. How does homeschooling in the US actually work? Who is teaching the child? One of the parents, or both, or visiting teachers? Are there common rules to follow in terms of syllabus, tuition hours, homework and assessment etc.? Or it's completely down to the family's discernment, and so long the child can do well on the end of year public exam, they are fine? I do have a feeling homeschooling would always be a better option in middle and upper middle class families where both parents have enough personal culture to teach their kids at least until junior high school level. My Mom was a humanities high school teacher and my Dad an electrical engineer. Had homeschooling being legal in Italy, they would have had all the skills to teach me 70/80% of the national curriculum for primary, junior and junior high schools with no external help.

Unfortunately I have a feeling most two-salary families wouldn't have the time and perhaps the cultural breadth to teach their children to a level comparable to the professional teachers found in schools. Under this perspective, would I be correct to see homeschooling like a luxury loaf of organic bread, hand baked and made out of the best ingredients, whereas public and mass schooling is the industrial bread that is a lot cheaper and still quite acceptable in terms of quality/price ratio. I know the US school system has been attacked on both the quality and funding fronts for many years. This is sad and also applies to many other societies, including UK (despite Tony Blair's famous "education, education, education" motto, an act of utter hypocrisy) and Italy. In line with the powers to be agendas, we are again drifting towards a classist education system, where the vast majority of children can enter a low quality, underfunded public system where they will only need be taught to conform to the current produce/consume/die mindset. On the other side, the children of the upper middle class and the elites will enter the fast and smart lane of selected private schools, where they will more easily develop the kind of skills needed to be the leaders of tomorrow. This is very visible in the UK, where as soon as one works in the upper echelons of our most coveted and lucrative industry - investment banking and financial services - they can't help but notice the disproportionate quantity of white Caucasian British people, all from Cambridge, Oxford or other posh unis.

Last but not least: the US used to be known for the large number of scholarships and fast-track systems that spotted particularly talented children regardless of social background and supported them through high school and university. Is this mechanism now compromised?

[zacb]

In regards to how it works, I don't know if this applies to everyone, but the following is what I have found. Most homeschoolers are more Evangelical and conservative morally speaking, come from lower or middle class background with a one breadwinner household. I find the major reason for homeschooling is morals, along with problems with other people. As far as how they study, they study independently, with occasional help from parent or tutors, and since my dad was good with math, it worked out pretty well, at least unti he passed. So with the exception of a few subjects, most subject can be easily learned on your own. The one thing that homeschooling allows is the potential to develop critical thinking, even in religious households. I noticed this with me imparticularly. I have noticed that since I had alot of extra time, and not alot of "friends", that I learned alot of extra stuff, and expanded my abilities I might not have otherwise tapped. I should note though that the social aspect can be impacted. But most people can overcome this, although I did not really, since there were other outside variables, such as mild autism (unknown to me at the time) and moving alot. But honestly, I don't think much besides time could help. So overall, if you balance everything out, it came out as a greater asset than liability.

As an example, I will compare two families. One is Christian, homeschooled, and has seven children, four of which are homeschooled (the rest are not school aged). The other family is a family of two, both which are going to the public schooled, and neither are religious to my knowledge. The first are always complimented on how polite and well mannered they are (they are not perfect, but close to it ) , and they have a well balanced life. The latter can be rather rowdy, the girl dresses rather suggestively for a 12 year old, and the mother let's her children develop themselves, instead of rasising them. They are running ragged running to every type of activity they can cram in, which is probably so they can have the veneer of perfect (the mother is a teacher). My point is not to brag, but to point out the benefits. Of course the children of the first house can some times get out of line, and the younger boy in the latter house has a heart of gold, but I kind of worry about the little fella. Of course there are exceptions to everythong, but these are my observations.

[publicduende]

In regards to how it works, I don't know if this applies to everyone, but the following is what I have found. Most homeschoolers are more Evangelical and conservative morally speaking, come from lower or middle class background with a one breadwinner household. I find the major reason for homeschooling is morals, along with problems with other people. As far as how they study, they study independently, with occasional help from parent or tutors, and since my dad was good with math, it worked out pretty well, at least unti he passed. So with the exception of a few subjects, most subject can be easily learned on your own. The one thing that homeschooling allows is the potential to develop critical thinking, even in religious households. I noticed this with me imparticularly. I have noticed that since I had alot of extra time, and not alot of "friends", that I learned alot of extra stuff, and expanded my abilities I might not have otherwise tapped. I should note though that the social aspect can be impacted. But most people can overcome this, although I did not really, since there were other outside variables, such as mild autism (unknown to me at the time) and moving alot. But honestly, I don't think much besides time could help. So overall, if you balance everything out, it came out as a greater asset than liability.

As an example, I will compare two families. One is Christian, homeschooled, and has seven children, four of which are homeschooled (the rest are not school aged). The other family is a family of two, both which are going to the public schooled, and neither are religious to my knowledge. The first are always complimented on how polite and well mannered they are (they are not perfect, but close to it ) , and they have a well balanced life. The latter can be rather rowdy, the girl dresses rather suggestively for a 12 year old, and the mother let's her children develop themselves, instead of rasising them. They are running ragged running to every type of activity they can cram in, which is probably so they can have the veneer of perfect (the mother is a teacher). My point is not to brag, but to point out the benefits. Of course the children of the first house can some times get out of line, and the younger boy in the latter house has a heart of gold, but I kind of worry about the little fella. Of course there are exceptions to everythong, but these are my observations.

Thanks for expanding, Zacb. You're a good guy, I can read it in every line of your posts. I am happy you found in homeschooling an opportunity to develop or improve your critical thinking. It's one of the foremost abilities for a child, and I admit that more often than not peer pressure at school does tend to flatten a boy's outlook on life to the minimum common denominator of the clique or the classroom. On the flip side, I tend to believe that spending most of the time studying alone at home, even with the occasional help from a parent or adult relative, may detract from the time and opportunities the child can spend interacting with their peers, for better or worse.

Perhaps the "golden" middle ground could be found in Outwest's daughter, who sounds like having received the best of both worlds. Perhaps Outwest and his ex-wife have disciplined her to spend equal amounts of time studying and learning alone and interacting with other children, or playing sports. All I can imagine is that, with a homeschooled child spending most of their day at home where parental supervision can be a lot easier, the role of a "present" Mom or Dad will be even more crucial for their development.

[BEIJINGSHOTS]

if u are rich, then laws do not apply to you in capitalist societies. and you can do a 1 yr old if you want. if you are poor, then you will get arrested for having sex with a 17 year old.

[zacb]

Well , what do you mean by capitalist? If you mean US type capitalism, then yeah I agree. I believe Alex Jones has talked about that type of corruption, like for instance how cps sell children into ptostitution and stuff like that.

On a similar note, there was this man a few years back who was working for the police force in my city(which is has a pop. of 11000), who planted cp on a romantic rival's computer. Luckily, he was caught. And the sad part is I know the family and it was for the most part a Christian family. Now the family is divorced. I imagine for every person that is caught, there is 5 that get away. But on a bright note, I have known several retired cops who are really good people.

[publicduende]

Well , what do you mean by capitalist? If you mean US type capitalism, then yeah I agree. I believe Alex Jones has talked about that type of corruption, like for instance how cps sell children into ptostitution and stuff like that.

On a similar note, there was this man a few years back who was working for the police force in my city(which is has a pop. of 11000), who planted cp on a romantic rival's computer. Luckily, he was caught. And the sad part is I know the family and it was for the most part a Christian family. Now the family is divorced. I imagine for every person that is caught, there is 5 that get away. But on a bright note, I have known several retired cops who are really good people.

Ouch, nasty story, this one. Only a seriously naive person can still believe the fable that all cops are of men (and women) of the ustmost moral integrity and fully committed to let justice prevail. It's the same in the UK: most police constables (the lower rung of the hierarchy) are frustrated, under-educated young men who join the force because it's one of the few careers that you can start even if all you have is a part-failed high school diploma. I am sure there are plenty of perfectly decent and committed policemen, yet to think that a black uniform and a certain authority over common citizens automatically yields the wisdom, knowledge of legislation and sense of responsibility required to exercise this power, is a big logical fallacy.

[publicduende]

if u are rich, then laws do not apply to you in capitalist societies. and you can do a 1 yr old if you want. if you are poor, then you will get arrested for having sex with a 17 year old.

That's a very different matter, and one that touches the dark(est) underbelly of our society. I guess the original topic was about being in a consensual relationship with a teenage girl. I dearly hope nobody in the course of the thread was referring to girls younger than 14.

[Teal Lantern]

I think nature has answered this question.

If there's grass on the field...