Housework And Divorce

[Taco]

Asking a woman if she thinks men should do housework on the first date should be standard procedure for all men.

Housework And Divorce
http://www.businessinsider.com/couples- ... ced-2012-9

[publicduende]

It's definitely something I would ask a date and in fact I did in a number of occasions. Some girls said they wouldn't mind doing housework as long as the burden is somehow shared with the man (something I deeply approve, especially if she has a full-time job and is back home as late and as tired as I am). A few others said, laughing, that they hoped they would live in a household well off enough to afford a maid a few times a week.

Surprisingly enough, none of the ladies I popped the question to has ever backed off the idea of helping with the house chores completely. Perhaps I haven't asked to an American princess yet

[publicduende]

It figures they would be more likely to get divorced because women are repulsed by such beta-mangina behavior in men as doing girly work when a woman should be doing it and could be expected to instantly lose all respect and feelings of sexual attraction to such a man.

I don't see anything wrong for the woman to do most household chores if she has chosen to be a full-time housewife and mother. But since I have always dated girls with expectations of a full-time job, or young women who already had a full-time job, I'm not surprised when they entertain the notion that both partners need to share the housework.

Cornfed, we all know you like your women homebound and submissive. I'm not sure how lucky you have been in finding such women, even abroad. All I can see is, those kinds of women tend to be boring and bored. Which is why they often spend too much time watching crap commercial TV, or worse start chatting to the unemployed douches that crowd online chats and dating sites.

[Cornfed]

I don't see anything wrong for the woman to do most household chores if she has chosen to be a full-time housewife and mother. But since I have always dated girls with expectations of a full-time job, or young women who already had a full-time job, I'm not surprised when they entertain the notion that both partners need to share the housework.

It's irrelevant whether the female works or not. Menial supporting tasks like housework are a female role. Even if the woman works and the man is unemployed the woman should make time to do the housework. It doesn't matter whether this is fair or not. It is not fair that men have to fight wars and such but there are solid biological reasons why this is a male role, just as housework is a female one. If the man shares the role the female will be secretly revolted by him and lack a sense of fulfillment in herself. Of course most paid "work" females do isn't that hard anyway, so it shouldn't be terribly difficult for them to do the housework as well. Assuming you really are a man and not a female troll, you are basically failing a "shit test" when you agree to help with the housework. If any woman is with you for any length of time it can be taken as read that she is there for the money and is being ploughed by dirtbags on the side.

[publicduende]

I don't see anything wrong for the woman to do most household chores if she has chosen to be a full-time housewife and mother. But since I have always dated girls with expectations of a full-time job, or young women who already had a full-time job, I'm not surprised when they entertain the notion that both partners need to share the housework.

It's irrelevant whether the female works or not. Menial supporting tasks like housework are a female role. Even if the woman works and the man is unemployed the woman should make time to do the housework. It doesn't matter whether this is fair or not. It is not fair that men have to fight wars and such but there are solid biological reasons why this is a male role, just as housework is a female one. If the man shares the role the female will be secretly revolted by him and lack a sense of fulfillment in herself. Of course most paid "work" females do isn't that hard anyway, so it shouldn't be terribly difficult for them to do the housework as well. Assuming you really are a man and not a female troll, you are basically failing a "sh** test" when you agree to help with the housework. If any woman is with you for any length of time it can be taken as read that she is there for the money and is being ploughed by dirtbags on the side.

You're such a genuine troll. It's impossible to start any kind of conversation with people like you. Everything collapses down to the only two or three arguments you have nailed in your little mind of yours by the second or third reply.

You have stated your "opinion" for the umpteenth time, that man are biologically superior and don't deserve to degrade their precious selves on something as menial as washing dishes after a dinner, or putting his dirty laundry in the washing machine. Despicable it is, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it as this is a public forum. We could even start debating it.

Why do you then have to give what's left of your rotting intellect another spin and "conclude" that my wife is here for the money and being f***ed on the side? If your opinion is on a general subject, why the need to descend into a personal insult against somebody who's not even here to defend herself? You think you're immune from judgment, from criticism? Or you're just afraid of being judged for the scumbag you are, by women and men alike?

As a fugly, unemployed man with nothing interesting to say or offer to the rest of mankind, let alone a woman, you may find it refreshing to fantasize about your ravishing masculine superiority and your ideal young lady working a full-time job and still have the time to keep the house spotless clean. And probably have enough energies left to give you a nice ride in bed. Regrettably, thinking it hard and ranting about it on an Internet forum won't make it real.

If you think a woman is expected to work less hard just because she's a woman, you have never been with a woman who works. Or a woman with ambition, and self pride. Or a woman, full stop.

[Cornfed]

Why do you then have to give what's left of your rotting intellect another spin and "conclude" that my wife is here for the money and being f***ed on the side? If your opinion is on a general subject, why the need to descend into a personal insult against somebody who's not even here to defend herself?

Whom have I insulted? I have just stated a likely fact for the benefit of you and other manginas. Arguably there is nothing wrong with your "wife" humping dirtbags since you are not really married. She is married to the government and you have a roommate type arrangement that you may be complicating with occasional sex and eventual financial ruin for you. Women viscerally know that they are the property of men; the only issue is which men. If you are not even going to use your pimp hand at home and allow your "wife" to fit into her female role then you are clearly forfeiting any claim on her and repelling her in the process.

If you think a woman is expected to work less hard just because she's a woman, you have never been with a woman who works.

It is obviously false statements like this that cause me to think you are a woman. Women don't even have the physical or intellectual capacity to work as hard as men and even if they did they are not expected to wreck their bodies and shorten their lives in the way that men are. Most female "work" in the West is a joke to allow them to collect money.

Or a woman with ambition, and self pride

Women have ambition to entertain men, birth and raise children, be looked after by men and gain status to allow them to do so. The end. To expect them to instead pretend to be men constitutes extreme hatred of women on your part.

[publicduende]

Why do you then have to give what's left of your rotting intellect another spin and "conclude" that my wife is here for the money and being f***ed on the side? If your opinion is on a general subject, why the need to descend into a personal insult against somebody who's not even here to defend herself?

Whom have I insulted? I have just stated a likely fact for the benefit of you and other manginas. Arguably there is nothing wrong with your "wife" humping dirtbags since you are not really married. She is married to the government and you have a roommate type arrangement that you may be complicating with occasional sex and eventual financial ruin for you. Women viscerally know that they are the property of men; the only issue is which men. If you are not even going to use your pimp hand at home and allow your "wife" to fit into her female role then you are clearly forfeiting any claim on her and repelling her in the process.

This is all a big joke, right? So my wife is married to the government and the occasional sex we're having is only meant to complicate a relationship that is only designed to bring me to financial ruin. Whatever rocks your boat, dude... No point even trying to debate such twisted reasoning.

If you think a woman is expected to work less hard just because she's a woman, you have never been with a woman who works.

It is obviously false statements like this that cause me to think you are a woman. Women don't even have the physical or intellectual capacity to work as hard as men and even if they did they are not expected to wreck their bodies and shorten their lives in the way that men are. Most female "work" in the West is a joke to allow them to collect money.

They might not have the same capacity on the few blue collar jobs that require physical effort, but what about the vast majority of jobs available in a modern society, which are tuned on intellectual effort? Even in industries traditionally dominated by men, like software development, I do see the occasional woman and she won't appear any different from a man, both in terms of effort put and results given. You're salivating sexism again. I am curious to see what kind of woman will ever accept this kind of verbal abuse if she ever has the unfortunate chance to engage in a conversation with you.

Or a woman with ambition, and self pride

Women have ambition to entertain men, birth and raise children, be looked after by men and gain status to allow them to do so. The end. To expect them to instead pretend to be men constitutes extreme hatred of women on your part.

Sure. In fact your approach based on respecting women for who they really are works so well that you're literally overwhelmed by hot and smart female prospects dying to be with you, night and day.

[Cornfed]

This is all a big joke, right? So my wife is married to the government and the occasional sex we're having is only meant to complicate a relationship that is only designed to bring me to financial ruin.

Wow, you managed to sum up most Western marriages in a sentence. Well done.

They might not have the same capacity on the few blue collar jobs that require physical effort, but what about the vast majority of jobs available in a modern society, which are tuned on intellectual effort? Even in industries traditionally dominated by men, like software development, I do see the occasional woman and she won't appear any different from a man, both in terms of effort put and results given. You're salivating sexism again. I am curious to see what kind of woman will ever accept this kind of verbal abuse if she ever has the unfortunate chance to engage in a conversation with you.

A large proportion of actual productive jobs still require physical effort. That is as opposed the majority of jobs which are bullshit designed to allow people, mostly women, to pretend to be employed when they are really on the dole. Women are incapable of much intellectual effort, which is why their contribution to technological progress in terms of intellectual capital is negligible. In fact the only jobs women can sometimes do as well as men are menial, repetitive tasks under closely supervised and controlled conditions. They are a kind on transitional stage between men doing a job and the job being fully automated. Even here they are often a scourge because they force the men to do the harder jobs, take jobs that could be used to train men and bring their usual drama and nonsense to the workforce. Pointing out the obvious instead of pretending that women are men is not abuse.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

It figures they would be more likely to get divorced because women are repulsed by such beta-mangina behavior in men as doing girly work when a woman should be doing it and could be expected to instantly lose all respect and feelings of sexual attraction to such a man.

Correct, a man who will do housework will be hated on as a beta mangina....I know...I did far more than my fair share of housework...

Men should do the MAN-ly work and leave the housework to the woman.

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Cornfed,
publicduende is a lost cause...best to just put him on block like I did...he is a hopeless mangina...his wife must really despise him...when he is arse raped in the courts he is one of the guys who will kill himself when he realised that his cupcake was EXACTLY LIKE THAT.

Since I came out of my mangina coma induced by my parents when I was little and graduated to alpha the world looks very different. I tell women exactly what I think of them and exactly how I will deal with them and they respect me for doing so. Any woman who does not agree with my position on women 110% knows that she has no chance of getting anything out of me....and I mean not even much of a "hello".

[PeterAndrewNolan]

Women have ambition to entertain men, birth and raise children, be looked after by men and gain status to allow them to do so. The end. To expect them to instead pretend to be men constitutes extreme hatred of women on your part.

Correct....every eastern european woman I have met knows that "career" is a lie and they DESPERATELY want some way to avoid working for a living....so getting married is their #1 to #10 goal.

I have had quite a lot of women say that what they want is a man-slave.....someone who does everything and pays for everything...and then they wonder why they are having no luck finding such men.

To expect women to be equal, to have a job, to work 40 to 50 hours a week is very hateful...

I am in the first generation of people in Australia where women were brainwashed by this career bullshit....

ALL THE WOMEN I KNOW FROM WHEN I WAS YOUNG WHO HAVE CAREERS WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO BE AT HOME WITH KIDS....

ALL....OF.....THEM...

I am now 48 and the woman I knew have been working for 30 years...they are FED UP with working and want someone else to pay for them. I laugh at them and tell them...

"If you think you are going to get to retire at 65 I have news for you. There will be no pension when you get to 65....you can see the retirement age going up now...you demanded to be treated like men....and you are going to be treated like men....you are going to work until you die....the fate of men all through history."

I laughed my arse off the day I realised that the womens demand for "the right to work" had turned into the obligation to work.

I am at the top of my profession in the world...in the next 20 years I will live a very comfortable life selling software and doing consulting work that very few people can do. That is like being on the down hill run. Almost no one has a resume like me.

The women I grew up with? Most of the ones who started with me at IBM or BHP never made it past the programming or business analyst stage as they were not prepared to make the sacrifices that it takes to get there....so they have stayed at relatively low level jobs and have relatively little experience.

I was prepared to go where the best and most interesting work was and to get the best experience and skills I could get. I was prepared to work 14 or 15 hours a day for years on end. I was prepared to write 140,000 lines of software in "my abundant spare time". I was prepared to invent and innovate and then destroy my own creation by inventing and innovating the replacement for it....

I do not know ONE woman in the world who has done similar. Not even one. I know LOTS of men who have done similar..

So the women I joined BHP with 30 years ago? And the women I joined IBM with 26 years ago? Most of them are not very happy campers that they got sold the lie of "work is glorious and you should want to do it".

I knew they were being fed a lie when I was 14 and I told the girls I knew that this "glamorous career" was a lie. They called me a male chauvenist pig and said that women are just as good as man and can do work just as good as men.

Ok? Where is the female PAN? Please point her out to me. I mean the world of BI is a BIG world. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of people in BI. Please show me the female PAN....and please don't try Claudia Imhoff...she can not write C++ of her life depended on it.

So Cornfed is correct...to expect a woman to work for a living is very hateful of the woman. When Jennifer and I were starting out she desperately wanted her "glorious career" and she got a good job at IBM....she did not want the "glorious career"...she just wanted the better house in a better area and as soon as she had everything she wanted she stopped working....and that is what will happen to this moron...he will be stupid like I was...have the kids...and then wifey will stop working......just like millions of others...

[publicduende]

Women have ambition to entertain men, birth and raise children, be looked after by men and gain status to allow them to do so. The end. To expect them to instead pretend to be men constitutes extreme hatred of women on your part.

Correct....every eastern european woman I have met knows that "career" is a lie and they DESPERATELY want some way to avoid working for a living....so getting married is their #1 to #10 goal.

I have had quite a lot of women say that what they want is a man-slave.....someone who does everything and pays for everything...and then they wonder why they are having no luck finding such men.

Some women could say that because they feel entitled, or they grew up spoiled by family or former partners. They're not the only women in existence on this planet. For a strange law of attraction, you always seem to stumble upon women who validate who you have become. Either you have magic powers, or half of what you say is BS. You choose.

To expect women to be equal, to have a job, to work 40 to 50 hours a week is very hateful...

I am in the first generation of people in Australia where women were brainwashed by this career bullshit....

ALL THE WOMEN I KNOW FROM WHEN I WAS YOUNG WHO HAVE CAREERS WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO BE AT HOME WITH KIDS....

ALL....OF.....THEM...

I am now 48 and the woman I knew have been working for 30 years...they are FED UP with working and want someone else to pay for them. I laugh at them and tell them...

"If you think you are going to get to retire at 65 I have news for you. There will be no pension when you get to 65....you can see the retirement age going up now...you demanded to be treated like men....and you are going to be treated like men....you are going to work until you die....the fate of men all through history."

I laughed my arse off the day I realised that the womens demand for "the right to work" had turned into the obligation to work.

Well, once again you're confusing a woman's atavistic desire to feel sheltered and protected by a man, with the more recently developed desire (or ambition) to have an intellectual profession and feel independent or able to contribute financially to the household. These two aspects are in constant conflict, yet this doesn't imply that a balance cannot be found, perhaps a different kind of balance at each stage of the woman's life. It's true that some women might feel the wear and tear of a career and stop working before their partners do - and so what? It's not "laughable", it's a choice that every woman takes with her husband.

Even I could feel, perhaps soon enough, that I want to devote an entire year on a software house project I have had in mind for the past few years. I have already spoken about this to my wife and she said she wouldn't have any problem supporting the two of us on her salary, with the obvious caveats that we would have to partially live off our savings and will need to restrain ourselves on exotic vacations or fancy restaurants for a while. She also added that, since I spent a couple of years supporting her entirely while she tried to resume her career in the UK, she doesn't see any problem playing her part whenever I see fit. Now, that's what I mean with a young lady who loves her husband and knows her responsibilities. I'm sorry if your relationship with your ex-wife went horribly wrong at some point. For the umpteenth time, it doesn't mean all relationships with a woman on a full-time job/career need go bad.

I am at the top of my profession in the world...in the next 20 years I will live a very comfortable life selling software and doing consulting work that very few people can do. That is like being on the down hill run. Almost no one has a resume like me.

The women I grew up with? Most of the ones who started with me at IBM or BHP never made it past the programming or business analyst stage as they were not prepared to make the sacrifices that it takes to get there....so they have stayed at relatively low level jobs and have relatively little experience.

This is just a stupid, baseless statement. Whatever your accomplishments in your chosen industry, you can't use them to validate that women are not capable of achieving the same, or more. There are less women in the industry, and the relatively high-flying ones are usually not in plain development, but in business analysis and project/programme management. I have met so many of this specimen I can't even recall the exact number. I can mention one Indian programme manager for IBM Professional Services in London, one from Accenture and one from Boston Consulting. They may not be working in BI and not directly comparable to your career, or even mine, but that doesn't make them lousy, incompetent professionals.

I was prepared to go where the best and most interesting work was and to get the best experience and skills I could get. I was prepared to work 14 or 15 hours a day for years on end. I was prepared to write 140,000 lines of software in "my abundant spare time". I was prepared to invent and innovate and then destroy my own creation by inventing and innovating the replacement for it....

I do not know ONE woman in the world who has done similar. Not even one. I know LOTS of men who have done similar..

I agree with you on this. It's in the DNA of our industry that the only way to stay afloat is by devoting plenty of spare time in keeping your skillset up to date, find better solutions than the accepted state of the art and make them part of your CV. It is also sadly true that working long hours every day will alienate you from your family and kids, which does have consequences in the long run, even with the most patient wife in the world. I spent a few months trapped in this 14 hours a day routine when I was at the hedge fund. From your life history I can assume you were prepared to go and even live abroad for prolonged periods of time. It doesn't take a genius to understand that your role as an absentee husband/father "for the greater good" may have sown the seeds of demise for your relationship.

Again, I understand why you did it. Yet, in the long run you could have found a better platform to update your skills while keeping the family tight. Maybe moving all together to a place where the most jobs could be found? NYC? Or London, maybe? It's full of Aussies here.

Ok? Where is the female PAN? Please point her out to me. I mean the world of BI is a BIG world. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of people in BI. Please show me the female PAN....and please don't try Claudia Imhoff...she can not write C++ of her life depended on it.

The fact you can't find a perfect female equivalent in your industry area doesn't mean no woman can achieve what you achieved, or ever will. And frankly, I find it a wee arrogant of you, to have to brandish your "impressive resume" to prove your infantile, sexist points to the members of an international dating forum. I say what I say because I had a life experience with women that has been, for the most part, fulfilling. Not because I work in investment banking or I'm a self-proclaimed expert in hi-perf trade analytics.

So Cornfed is correct...to expect a woman to work for a living is very hateful of the woman. When Jennifer and I were starting out she desperately wanted her "glorious career" and she got a good job at IBM....she did not want the "glorious career"...she just wanted the better house in a better area and as soon as she had everything she wanted she stopped working....and that is what will happen to this moron...he will be stupid like I was...have the kids...and then wifey will stop working......just like millions of others...

Once again, I don't know the details of your relationship with Jennifer and not that interested to know them. If she had started with the ambitions to find a job in IT and then regretted it because she couldn't juggle it with a large family and a household to run (while her husband was mostly away on international projects), why should I blame her? By "as soon as she had everything she wanted", do you mean "once she thought she had contributed enough to improving the family lifestyle"? Didn't you discuss this choice with her? Were you opposed to that back then? So what's there to regret? Neither partner should feel forced to work themselves to consumption just to obey some social rule. This is true both for men and women.

We're not planning to have kids for another year or two. Knowing my wife, I know she may want to put her career on a lower gear and focus on raising the kids. Or maybe she will stop altogether. Or maybe I will stop for a year to work on my software house project while she will support me. It's a matter of choices, our choices. What do you have to say on our choices, let alone criticise without knowing us or being close to us? As for the housework, it has never been a problem. True, we share some of the daily chores like cooking, dishwashing and hanging the laundry, but we also have Maria (the Filipino nanny, right here as I write this) who comes twice a week to do the bulk of the housecleaning and all the ironing. To stretch such a typical, simple ménage to say I'm a moron and I'll be raped in courts is just insane, and insanely arrogant on your side.

[publicduende]

There are less women in the industry, and the relatively high-flying ones are usually not in plain development, but in business analysis and project/programme management. I have met so many of this specimen I can't even recall the exact number. I can mention one Indian programme manager for IBM Professional Services in London, one from Accenture and one from Boston Consulting. They may not be working in BI and not directly comparable to your career, or even mine, but that doesn't make them lousy, incompetent professionals.

Just out of interest, what did these women actually do that was so great? It seems that lots of women are consulting, liaising, facilitating, "managing", but not actually doing anything. I believe it is called the Dilbert Principle.

Look, if you want to mock women for some sane humour a-la-Dilbert, I'm with you. That doesn't change the fact that there are no jobs that mould around women. It's the woman who moulds herself around the job and its requirements. Like men do. Again, continuing to state the bloody obvious as if it's something extremely exotic and hard to understand.

[Cornfed]

To stretch such a typical, simple ménage to say I'm a moron and I'll be raped in courts is just insane, and insanely arrogant on your side.

If you are on the level, then when you are raped in the divorce court you have a moral obligation to post the details here to warn naive younger men of the dangers and give the rest of us a good laugh before you top yourself. Remember what I said about there being charities that allow homeless people to use the Internet. Probably your wife is waiting until some time period expires that allows her to divorce you under UK legislation and extract the maximum amount of vaginamony from you before lowering the boom.

[publicduende]

To stretch such a typical, simple ménage to say I'm a moron and I'll be raped in courts is just insane, and insanely arrogant on your side.

If you are on the level, then when you are raped in the divorce court you have a moral obligation to post the details here to warn naive younger men of the dangers and give the rest of us a good laugh before you top yourself. Remember what I said about there being charities that allow homeless people to use the Internet. Probably your wife is waiting until some time period expires that allows her to divorce you under UK legislation and extract the maximum amount of vaginamony from you before lowering the boom.

What about your moral obligation to STFU about people and things you know nothing about? Whatever "good" I might be doing to men here I believe I'm doing it now, sharing my experience as a happy man, happily married with a foreign woman who loves me to bits (and I reciprocate to the fullest). Thinking that my relationship will fail in a few years just to do you and your paranoid state of mind a favour? No, thanks. Are you always thinking in fear of dying, or trying to live your life to the fullest?

You're the one who is trapped, methinks. You can't get to respect another human being, be it a man with different ideas than yours or a woman. And you profoundly hate people who are happy. You could work harder to change your life and find some peace of mind, if not happiness proper. Instead, you prefer to caress your ego and stay hidden in your comfort zone by imagining a world where everybody, sooner or later, will be dragged into the same state of despair and mistrust towards fellow humans as you are and have been for a long time. Isn't that true?