Is International Dating For Losers?

[Winston]

Am I a loser? Are all the fans of my site losers? Is International Dating for losers?

It depends on your standards and definitions, and if you even use that word at all. To the standards of the general mainstream American mentality and pop culture, probably yes. Let's see, someone who can't get girls in their own country and has to go abroad to do so, yeah I think that spells "loser" to a lot of people.

So I guess that means that to a large segment of the US population, we are considered losers. But rather than deny it or hide from it, I'd rather face that fact and confront it.

Ok, so I'm a loser, but so what? Should I kill myself? Or try to make the best of it? I think any kind decent person would say the latter. But isn't that what I've done?

Besides, it's NOT my fault that I'm a loser in America. I did NOT choose to be branded as "undesirable, unattractive, unwanted, not dating material, not good enough for girls, not anyone's type" etc. Those labels and statuses were GIVEN and ASSIGNED to me automatically by default. Right when I reached dating age, I was considered unwanted and a joke. Thus, it's obviously NOT my fault. So why should I suffer for something that's not my fault? Isn't that unjust?

And no, my attitude had nothing to do with it. That's the pseudo-American pop psych talk that does nothing. The thing is, when you've met 10,000 girls and all of them tell you that you're not their type, you sort of get the idea that your undesirability branding and status are real and not imagined. (and I'll bet you anything that if those who call me a loser were not anyone's type as well, they wouldn't like it either)

Yet I NEED to be desirable to hot girls and be able to have them, to be happy. Hence an irreconcilable dilemma.

Thus, the abroad path was the best and most realistic solution for this dilemma, even if it is considered a "loser path" to the mainstream American mind. At least it WORKS, I get what I want and am happy, and that's the bottom line.

Now look at the alternative of staying in the US and following the standard pseudo-advice commonly given to dateless losers - 1) Work on yourself, and 2) Get involved in activities and clubs.

Where do you think this would get me? Let's see, I work on myself for a few years, and enhance my desirability a bit. Then maybe ONCE every few YEARS, I'll find someone who wants to date me, and if I'm lucky she might even be somewhat cute or attractive. But that's ONCE every few YEARS! (which was my dating record in the US already) Plus, there's no telling how long it will even last when it comes either (my last American girlfriend lasted only 5 weeks!). Now does that spell wide pool of CHOICES to you? I think not! Life is too short for that. On the other hand, look at my wide assortment of dating choices overseas in my collage (http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Collage.htm). I think that says it all. Anyone would rather have lots of choices constantly present, then just ONE choice every few years, or none at all! Get real.

As to number two, been there, done that. Sure I can join activities and clubs to meet girls, or take classes popular with girls (cooking, yoga, swing dancing) or just simply going to places where the girls are. Anyone can do that. But look at reality here. Meeting lots of girls you like isn't going to get you any dates if you're not their type. They're still gonna blow you off if you show interest. All that will come of it are polite conversations, but nothing more. And if you try to make something more out of it, they blow you off or refuse politely, saying that they have a boyfriend or that they prefer to have time to themselves. So sure, you can meet lots of girls in America, but if you aren't their type, which I never am, then you'll only be left with disappointment, a huge let down, and blow to your ego. You will be left wondering,

"What's wrong with me? Why am I not dating material? Why did those girls say they would rather be alone then hang out with me?"

Well f@#$ that. Why deal with that when there's dating paradise overseas?! Life is too short to waste. You gotta make the best of it NOW!

[Grunt]

A couple jokes come to mind. First, nobody criticizes last place. Who came in dead last in the 50 meter dash in the 1980 summer Olympics?

Who cares?

Another one from the immortal Greaseman, back when him and Howard Stern were locked in a battle to the death.

"They wouldn't be nipping at your heels if they weren't behind you."

I may not agree with you on all things, but if the problem is 20% Winston, its 80$ America...and American females.

Its OK to vent about circumstances, but obsessing over the babbling of an insane, neurotic enemy eventually becomes pointless.

[wuming]

This game called life really has only one criterion for success: Follow Your Bliss, per Joseph Campbell - arguably one of the most articulate scholars on philosophy and spirituality in the 20th century.

Put another way, death is inevitable, but living is not.

No one who challenges himself, the world, and grows every year - as Winston has done in spades - is a loser. Frankly, only losers have time to call other people losers; the winners in life are busy building.

[momopi]

"Loser" is the antonym (opposite) of "winner". In most competition or circumstance, you cannot win without someone losing.

A person can choose what competition he enters most of the time, but he cannot choose what circumstance he is in most of the time.

Consider the concept of "womb lottery". You don't get to choose who your parents are. People are born with different abilities and opportunities, or lack of. If you're lucky in the biological or inheritance lottery, you're born with the right genes and trust fund. If you're unlucky, then you're must chase up the socio-economic ladder. For the really unfortunate, they're born into crushing poverty.

Is life fair that my friends were born into wealthy families or have better looks? No, but that doesn't mean they're responsible. If I judge women based on their sexual market value, it'd be hypocritical to think that women shouldn't judge me the same way. Everyone goes through the womb lottery like random rolling lotto balls. You might be unhappy with your number, but others didn't roll the cage for you. It's much healthier to be happy for other people's good fortune and work to build your own.

An investment in yourself is always a good thing. Telling someone to improve their education, appearance, and attitude is not bad advice. Going abroad to find a GF doesn't make you a loser, because you got off your butt to do something about it. Those who stay home to jerk off to internet porn and rage about other people, will stay exactly where they are.

[Shokkers]

Life's actually a cycle of winning and losing when you think about it.

Everyone I look up to...Jesus, Buddha, Churchill, Poe, Lincoln, Coverdale, etc., has had wins and losses. Truth be told, few people on earth will lose as many times as Lincoln did, but he's remembered for the wins.

There's only a few people I know of who seem to be charmed-life 'winners'--for example, Gene Simmons, and he's an obnoxious a**hole.

Mike Tyson WAS a winner, now he's $63 Million in debt.

Michael Jackson used to have the world on a string, now he's been smeared all over the place.

I think it's when people start calling you a 'winner' that you have to start saving your nickels and watching your back...'cause America loves 'winners', but it seems to love turning winners INTO losers even more.

[MoscowSummerNights]

As usual an excellent post by Winston.

However...I would prefer if we did not perpetuate the ridiculous concept that American businessmen who jet-set around the world are anything but the opposite of losers.

In real life, an American man with a gorgeous young girlfriend or wife is LOOKED UP TO. I went to a CEO conference 2 years ago with a 25 year old in tow (wearing gorgeous dresses and evening gowns all the time)...and she and I were the hit of the conference.

In real life, your CEO salary goes UP if you have a gorgeous young wife or girlfriend.

It seems to only be an INTERNET concept that men who travel are losers.

The concept does not travel into the boardroom.

And there is a phenomenon on the Internet (blogosphere and comments sections of articles, etc) for the dumbest people (the real losers who spend too much time on the Internet) to simply repeate urban legends and prejudices on EVERY SUBJECT.

It is the Internet where losers hang out...and they will bash us more than anyone else would bash us.

I have been shocked about how, on the Internet, IMBRA is generally not found to be interesting by the majority of people who would have clearly seen me posting EVERYWHERE about how people need to fight a law that background checks men like us just for wanting to say hello to a foreign woman.

In real life, every American I meet in Europe who learns from me about IMBRA, goes into shock and says "WHY hasn't anyone CHALLENGED this ridiculous law?"

It is only on the Internet that nobody seems to want to challenge IMBRA. Sadly, the Internet is the only place I can really try to organize anything because I not longer LIVE in the USA among Americans, where I could go to a local law school and find someone to challenge IMBRA as part of a course project.

Obviously, the apathy online really does come from at least a subconscious prejudice against us...but it could also come from a subconscious ENVY of us...people tend to not want to discuss IMBRA.

I am well aware that US culture does think of a certain kind of obnoxious guy, like the lieutenant in Forrest Gump, as needing to get his wife in Asia. But that character in Forrest Gump was seen, in the end, in a very favorable light. He was happily married and the movie did not depict him being abusive or the Korean wife leaving him.

I also remember how, in Born on the 4th of July, Tom Cruise's paralyzed character had to go to Mexico to see a prostitue because he was totally cut out of the gene pool in the USA because he had served in Vietnam and had been so badly injured.

But the lesson there was that Americans, and American women, should be ashamed that an American hero had been made to be socially rock bottom. The movie scolded Americans for dissing that Vietnam vet and implied that an American woman should have become his girlfriend or wife even though he could no longer perform in bed.

Then you get the James Bond films where at least British men are allowed to see themselves as being able to travel the world and sleep with gorgeous women..(you will NEVER see an American James bond doing the same because American women are the most jealous in the world and do not want to see American men depicted on film as being winners who get to sleep with gorgeous foreign women all the time).

99% of journalists whom I wrote to about IMBRA simply decided (in some cases their editors decided) not to pursue an article or discussion on the subject of men who date foreign women....but less than 1% decided to write an article PRAISING IMBRA. The other 99% apparently agreed with me that there was at least a controversy there...but, against my will, they decided that this was a subject where they did not want to go.

Look at A Foreign Affair Dot Com where the front page is plastered with the logos of all the major TV stations and magazines in the USA, as if they all endorsed International Marriage-Oriented Matchmaking sites.

This is because, just a few years ago, the US media practically DID ENDORSE such dating. They had positive articles and positive TV broadcasts...at least well into the 90s.

To me, that perception changed overnight when IMBRA sprang out of the blue and I learned for the very FIRST TIME that there was some kind of prejudice lurking about the whole matter of foreign dating (and that feminists were stronger than I had imagined politically, that feminists considered stopping foreign dating to be their highest priority).

It seems to be only since Internet blogging got big that a negativity toward ALL male activities started to gel online.

Some people here should become regular writers at Mens News Daily dot com.

[Sonic Monkey]

All IMBRA says is if you are matching people for a fee, you need to do a background check. I don't know why that is viewed as nefarious.

Why would you care if other people are impressed by your 25 year old date? Who, really, cares?

Winston, I believe all individuals have worth. I don't really understand the question. You are not some tortured adolescent. You're a 35 year old father. Who cares what other people think about you? Life is a personal journey.

Follow the philosophies of the great religions, which all boil down to live with love and to serve others, and you will have nothing to apologize for.

[Ice-Inc]

Am I a loser? Are all the fans of my site losers?

Let's be polite and say most of your ideas and expectations are unrealistic.

If ou want to date a different hot model everyday and have instant sex with them then you need to have something these models want, namely money or glossy expensive material goods.

Of course there are exceptions but the probability will be very low that a a hot young model will fall in love with you at first sight the way you would for her.

You can work out the maths on whether you lean towards a successful or loser status...

[polya]

Hi Winston,
This post is exactly like the yahoo answers question you posted a few months ago & the most memorable response was some girl saying something like "your just looking for affirmation with this question." Its fine to seek affirmation, especially after years of putting up with sh*t from stuck up bi*ches.
I wouldn't worry about American girls, because the next president will make the Bush's look like Mary Poppins. The girls will soon get down from their high horses when they find themselves out of work, out of their houses & little prospects for the future - not to mention war witrh Russia if Paulin keeps her word. So be happy in your new country as the girls are so much better.

[Winston]

Moscowsummernights,

I've noticed the same thing. What people say on the internet and what they say in real life are far different. For example, 99 percent of expats I meet here in real life have agreed with my views, both here and back in Russia. But online, when I express the same views, less than half of internet forum posters agree with me. Instead, I become an object of ridicule. I don't know why. How can everyone I meet in reality agree with me almost unanimously and relate the same experiences I've had, yet the internet folks, including those who claim to be well traveled and experienced, treat me like some kind of freak?

It's odd.

Oh and Ice-Inc,

Sorry to burst your bubble but yes, models here DO fall in love with me. I was in disbelief about it at first too, and still am, but it has happened on several occassions. I am talking about girls who are 9's and 10's in my book and look like they belong in magazines, tall skinny, perfect figure, etc. And believe me, I definitely can tell when a girl really likes me vs. one who's just pretending. There are many signs that tell you. But I won't get into too many details on this one since I'm trying to keep my private life anonymous due to problems that my big mouth has caused me in the past. I only share my secrets now with the closest of my real life friends.

[momopi]

Let's be polite and say most of your ideas and expectations are unrealistic.

The purpose of Winston's post is to point out that many men didn't choose to be in a category that he couldn't do anything about.

Let's look at broader statistical perspective -- we'll pick the height attribute for this discussion. What percentage of American women do you think prefers to date taller men, versus those who would consider dating a shorter man, versus those who prefer a shorter man?

Socially, we're conditioned with the taller man & shorter skinny girl image. Well, girls are statistically shorter and, with some exceptions, most can go on a diet and become skinny. But for a man, your genes and childhood diet determines your body height.

90% of CEO's in America are above the average height. Of all the Presidential Elections in the 20th century, the taller candidate won 80% of the time. The average height of Congressman and Governors are 3" above the average American height. Just as better looking people get hired over not so good looking ones, taller men also get paid more on average.

A women who prefers to date taller man will, at best, consider dating a shorter one. The discrimination is real and not imagined:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=123853&page=2

"To see if the women would go for short guys who were successful, ABCNEWS' Lynn Sherr created extraordinary résumés for the shorter men. She told the women that the shorter men included a doctor, a best-selling author, a champion skier, a venture capitalist who'd made millions by the age of 25.

Nothing worked. The women always chose the tall men. Sherr asked whether there'd be anything she could say that would make the shortest of the men, who was 5 feet, irresistible. One of the women replied, "Maybe the only thing you could say is that the other four are murderers." Another backed her up, saying that had the taller men had a criminal record she might have been swayed to choose a shorter man. Another said she'd have considered the shorter men, if the taller men had been described as "child molesters."


The short man did not choose to be short. He did not choose to be, in Winston's words, "undesirable, unattractive, unwanted, and not dating material". "These labels and statuses were given and assigned automatically by default". Compared to taller and more appealing males, the shorter male must work harder to improve his sexual market value, to move up from the "undesirable" to the "will consider" category, while very few will make it to the "preferred' category (Tom Cruise?).

People don't like Winston (and others who went overseas) because he revolted against the established social structure and went abroad where his sexual market value is automatically higher. In Angeles city, a single American male is probably in the "preferred" category. He doesn't have to climb up in the same way as his counterpart in the US.

This upsets people who are firmly established in the meritocracy mindset, who thinks he took a short-cut. But the birth or gene lottery is not meritocracy, some people are born with a silver spoon and others are born into crushing poverty. The American meritocracy mindset is also hypocritical in its worship and granting of exceptions to the rich and famous. There's a double standard where a joe average male with a pretty wife from abroad is looked down as "mail order bride" loser, versus Hugh Hefner can have many pretty young GF's and be glamorous. Whos' to say that the average joe with a pinay wife isn't a better family man with strong traditional/conservative values, verus Hugh Hefner's playboy lifestyle?

[Grunt]

First off, who gives a flying rats rump what American females want?

Second, Hugh Hefner is a great example because he did get his ass handed to him in divorce court!

Third, I thank God every day that I discovered the truth about the average American female. Had I not, I could have married one. And that would have been the worst possible fate of all. Even worse then being alone.

[Winston]

That was a brilliant dissertation momopi. You nailed it! You are a true genius! So logical and insightful! I love how you always know how to make sense. You are like Spock and a wise father in one.

[jamesbond]

First off, who gives a flying rats rump what American females want?

Second, Hugh Hefner is a great example because he did get his ass handed to him in divorce court!

Third, I thank God every day that I discovered the truth about the average American female. Had I not, I could have married one. And that would have been the worst possible fate of all. Even worse then being alone.

Well put Grunt! Who gives a rats ass what American women want! An American man can simply go overseas and have his market value increased and have a much easier time meeting quality women!

[Hero]

The only people who've ever called me "loser" are even bigger losers.